M1945 Naval Air Major General Victory Parade Uniform

[slava1stclass]

Gents,

As I'm no expert, please judge for yourself. Currently offered on a well-known site.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[charlet]

hello, I saw it on E...a big russian dealer only on E. For me, a brand new 2004 authentic jacket! ;)
Too new to be true, all embroideries are brand new and too jellow, not deep gold, and no patina or wear traces as it should be expected on a 60years old jacket. So, fake.My opinion! :D

[DougD]

I am reserving my opinion at this point, though i have to agree with the observations of Charlet. I would like to inspect it though before making up my mind.

DD

[kabanchik]

I too saw it on E.............darned pretty and well-made, though. Rather gives one a VERY good idea what these things must've looked like when brand new from the tailor!!

[slava1stclass]

To all:

I neglected to mention that the item is being offered on consignment from a party located in the Russian Federation and is in Russia at the moment. The asking price would tend to support your suspicions - seems low for a "gem" such as this.
As we've seen with orders and medals, the window of opportunity for high-end G.O./Marshal M1945 VP uniforms is not as wide as it was in the mid to late 90s. Unscrupulous attempts to capitalize on growing demand, however, remain the case.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Lapa]

Hi All,

I am afraid that most people will start thinking that I am starting to develop an early form of senility here as I keep repeating myself.
A few months ago in St Petersburg, I had the opportunity to be in contact with "the underground", a group of people who pudically describe their activities as "uniform restoration", but who also seem to have a strong interest in the production of new items according to past regulations, using ORIGINAL MATERIALS (of course, the scarcer, the better...). To go straight to the point: you can pretty much custom order whatever type of uniform you like (M45 and up), which will be manufactured to your exact measurements or requirements by the same qualified workers who tailor the "real" ones, using real, original gold bullion thread (not the cheap lemony colored one), being embroidered by (once again) the same embroiderers that do the "real" uniforms.

So, to summarize:
1. Original fabric or fabric woven to original specifications (I was shown piles of M54 wave blue fabric, some M45 fabric for making branch piping (they gave me a few pieces so I could fix my Infantry General VP uniform that was chewed up by hungry mites), etc
2. Original gold bullion thread. I was shown side by side an original and a new production cap; talking only about embroderies, they could not be distinguished in thread quality or in workmanship.
3. Professional tailors currently working, or recently retired, from the official uniform manufactures (my friend's mother was a seamstress since about 1939 in one of the big manufactures in Leningrad; she took my measurements and is waiting my "GO" to custom make me a M54 General's uniform).
4. Professional embroiderers currently working, or recently retired, from the official uniform manufactures (similar to above; in this case, the embroderies are done by the North-Western Military Area official supplier (sorry, I forgot their exact name)).

I personally stopped believing in the Soviet Uniform Santa Claus approximately 4 months ago, but anyone is free to do as they please.

Marc

[DougD]

Before we become paranoid about high end uniforms, the copies they make are not 100% identical to the real things. They are good, but if you have had a real M1945 in your hands (or better, multiple) you can usually tell the difference.

We are entering the time where cloth is really gaining in value; just as with medals, copies will be produced but they can be told form the originals. We just can't take for granted that everything is real.

Fake officers items have been coming over for the past 2 years, there is a very well photographed fake M1945 Marshal in a popular collecting book, as well as some fake M1940 Marshals that have been in books.

Also, there are fake unit flags being made too.

another note on E. I have been a dealer in high end cloth for 7 years and never have placed a rare / high end uniform on E. It just does not need to go there; the demand for such items is so high and supply so low that usually items like this are sold either before they actually come to me, or are sold within 48 hours. Having to resort to E to sell such a great item always raises flags for me; German or Russian.

the collar embroidery on this uniform seems to be too wide, the more i look at the photo. On M1945 naval generals and admirals it is more narrow....more to come as i look at it.

at least they used original boards, though the wear does not match to the rest of the tunic.

DD

[slava1stclass]

To all:

BLUF: Marc and DougD each raise valid points. As a collector, you must have a real warm and fuzzy about any item you intend to acquire - especially if it involves doling out thousands of dollars. If you don't, steer clear. You need to be able to cut through the sales pitch hype, alleged historical pedigree, etc. and make your own reasoned decision based on your acquired personal knowledge/research, experience, hands-on examination and, most importantly, common sense. Sometimes the pitch matches the item and other times it does not.
As we all know, even "experts" in a given field can be fooled on occasion - the Hitler diary scandal of the early 1980s is a wonderful case in point.
People who are eager to acquire something - either historical or otherwise - are often blind to warning signs either subtle or obvious. I'm sure that many forum members will agree that they've been stung at one time or another whether on a nickel & dime item or something worth much, much more.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[DougD]

Here is a real collar and cuffs of an M1945 admiral that just came in; this is what real collar and cuffs should look like ( for a naval aviation general though there would be cuff bars, not anchors)

DD

[charlet]

Thanks for these pics Doug;
I think we fall again on the eternal old problem: the patina.
Patina is the judge of peace (?) for determinating if an item (medal, money coin, embroidery and cloth) is genuine...what is hardier to reproduce than a good old patina?

PS: Doug I saw your PM, and discovered me too the E links towards the tunic have disapeared...?????????