Red Banner.

Frieza · 02-19-2002, 04:19 PM

hi everyone. I'm looking for pictures of the Order of the Red Banner 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th awards, does anyone know where i could find some?

Tal Inbar · 02-19-2002, 06:06 PM

Hi

You can look at the book "orders and medals of the USSR" by Shishkov & Muzalevsky, ( Vol. 1, pp. 53-58) or the "comperehensive guide to orders and medals" by McDaniel.

I will try to post some photos.

Tal

***Art*** · 02-19-2002, 07:29 PM

Frieza,

I have some of the suspension Red Banner's here on the website. ( I have a 2nd and 3rd awarding at the moment ) help yourself to any of the images if you want to save them on your computer for future reference. Here's a hint, try to name them according to the Type and Variation. ( example, rbannerT2V1.jpg for Red Banner type 2 Variation 1 ) This way you'll have a constantly growing library of pictures which you can use to identify anything you may encounter. Here is a quick link to the main site with the info:

Red Banner

Art

***Art*** · 03-10-2002, 06:08 PM

Tal,

What book is that from? try to post a closeup of it if it really looks like an altered #3...

Tal Inbar · 03-10-2002, 11:43 PM

This is the book (I don't have it so i only have the scan above):

CZ · 03-11-2002, 02:05 AM

Dear Tal,

if you photograph a "8" in this way, any "8" will might appear as a faked "3".

The booklet you showed to us is the most widely spread book about soviet awards in Austria and Germany and was written by Dr. Dietrich Herfurth, the most senior expert of soviet decorations in Germany (who was already "the" expert of soviet miliary decorations in the old German Democratic Republic, where he published his first book about soviet military awards 20 years ago).

Dr. Herfurth takes his photographic illustrations from pictures shot by Jean Molitor or himself taken decades ago at soviet military museums. Some photographs are from the McDaniel/Schmitt-book.

So I don't understand what you want to tell to us. Shall we suspect honorable Dr. Herfurth to publish photographs of fakes in his booK?

Regards from Vienna

Tal Inbar · 03-11-2002, 05:34 AM

Dear Mr Zulus

As you felt very often insulted and offended by members of the forum, I can not understand your writing style, when you adress others.

I merely made a point, by showing the "number 8", that I find it very odd, since not a single book (McDaniel, Shishkov, Kutsenko - to name a few) E V E R talked about REAL Order of the Red Banner number 8.

I am positive that the honorable Heer Dr. Herfurth didn't INTENTIONALLY included fakes in his work. It happens even to the best (you can find a fake RSFSR Red banner in McDaniel's book).

I have asked for educated remarks, not insults. In the future, it will be helpfull to us all, if anyone will adress the others in the same manner as he expect others to adress him.

Tal Inbar

***Art*** · 03-11-2002, 05:16 PM

These high number Orders of the Red Banner seemed to me to be more of a political creation than an award for anything which would necessitate anything like a number "8". I wonder who serial number 4 was actually awarded to?

This is similar to Brezhnevs desire to award himself all those awards around birthday-time.

***Art*** · 03-11-2002, 05:35 PM

Well I have to say, now I've seen it all..questions regarding authenticity aside, I have to speculate...where do these end?

Tal Inbar · 03-11-2002, 05:37 PM

Ha ha......maby in the two figure award?????????

02-19-2002, 04:19 PM	#1
Frieza Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 35 Posts: 30	Red Banner. hi everyone. I'm looking for pictures of the Order of the Red Banner 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th awards, does anyone know where i could find some?

03-10-2002, 06:08 PM	#4
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Tal, What book is that from? try to post a closeup of it if it really looks like an altered #3... __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-11-2002, 05:16 PM	#8
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	These high number Orders of the Red Banner seemed to me to be more of a political creation than an award for anything which would necessitate anything like a number "8". I wonder who serial number 4 was actually awarded to? This is similar to Brezhnevs desire to award himself all those awards around birthday-time. __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-11-2002, 05:35 PM	#9
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Well I have to say, now I've seen it all..questions regarding authenticity aside, I have to speculate...where do these end? __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

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02-19-2002, 06:06 PM	#2
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Hi You can look at the book "orders and medals of the USSR" by Shishkov & Muzalevsky, ( Vol. 1, pp. 53-58) or the "comperehensive guide to orders and medals" by McDaniel. I will try to post some photos. Tal

02-19-2002, 07:29 PM	#3
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Frieza, I have some of the suspension Red Banner's here on the website. ( I have a 2nd and 3rd awarding at the moment ) help yourself to any of the images if you want to save them on your computer for future reference. Here's a hint, try to name them according to the Type and Variation. ( example, rbannerT2V1.jpg for Red Banner type 2 Variation 1 ) This way you'll have a constantly growing library of pictures which you can use to identify anything you may encounter. Here is a quick link to the main site with the info: Red Banner Art __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-11-2002, 02:05 AM	#6
CZ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 103	Dear Tal, if you photograph a "8" in this way, any "8" will might appear as a faked "3". The booklet you showed to us is the most widely spread book about soviet awards in Austria and Germany and was written by Dr. Dietrich Herfurth, the most senior expert of soviet decorations in Germany (who was already "the" expert of soviet miliary decorations in the old German Democratic Republic, where he published his first book about soviet military awards 20 years ago). Dr. Herfurth takes his photographic illustrations from pictures shot by Jean Molitor or himself taken decades ago at soviet military museums. Some photographs are from the McDaniel/Schmitt-book. So I don't understand what you want to tell to us. Shall we suspect honorable Dr. Herfurth to publish photographs of fakes in his booK? Regards from Vienna

03-11-2002, 05:34 AM	#7
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Dear Mr Zulus As you felt very often insulted and offended by members of the forum, I can not understand your writing style, when you adress others. I merely made a point, by showing the "number 8", that I find it very odd, since not a single book (McDaniel, Shishkov, Kutsenko - to name a few) E V E R talked about REAL Order of the Red Banner number 8. I am positive that the honorable Heer Dr. Herfurth didn't INTENTIONALLY included fakes in his work. It happens even to the best (you can find a fake RSFSR Red banner in McDaniel's book). I have asked for educated remarks, not insults. In the future, it will be helpfull to us all, if anyone will adress the others in the same manner as he expect others to adress him. Tal Inbar

03-11-2002, 05:37 PM	#10
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Ha ha......maby in the two figure award?????????

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