Suspensions, Ribbons, Ribbon Bars And Order Of Precedence.

[Ed Maier]

Estaban_cool,

I think that this is the regular red ribbon. Because of the reflection of the light, it looks like it has different color strips. If you looks at a real ribbon in very good condition, you can see some light refraction as you view it from different angles.

Just my opinion,
Ed

[yolkin]

...eh.... I don't know Ed...

It does look like a legitimate claim on Esteban's part...

Can other board members shed any light on whether S. M. Budenny's medal of XX RKKA could have been on a suspension with a "special" ribbon? Perhaps due to his position?

Eric

[Ed_Haynes]

That other Ed is, as usual, right.

Black and white film, especially older film, gives odd color depictions. Anyone who has ever tried to ID ribbons from WWI and pre-WWI ribbon bars knows ths difficulty. The problem is especially bad with moire ribbons that are intended to look "silky" and reflect light in an attractive and dazzling way. This ribbon is exactly how a regular ribbon when very new and of very high quality (what else would you expect from Budenny?) would appear in a pre-WWII black and white film emulsion.

Somewhere, can't remember where, I ran across a nice internet article on the odd color shifts we should expect with these old emulsions.

Ed Haynes

(another Ed, not as often right as is that other Ed)

[Esteban_cool]

Yes yes, but, you must notice that this pattern is not an odd thing shown. As you can see on the photo, we have a determined and symetrical pattern: two light gray stripes at right and left, with a very dark gray and thin stripe at the middle of each one, and at the left and right corners of the suspension, thicker dark gray stripes. Thus, gentlemen, we could say that this medal was made specially for Marshal Buddënny or maybe a prototype medal or ribbon.

If someone wants to discuss this with me, we can add a new topic for a more detailed discussion. ¿How about it?

Esteban

[Ed Maier]

Estaban,

Excuse me, but once again you are wrong! There is no pattern, and there is no such thing as a special ribbon!!! You are reading too much into a picture. No matter how much you wish it to be true it is not.

I'm sorry to be rude, but how hard do you need to be hit between the eyes with the truth.

Sorry for being blunt,
Ed M.

[Nota Bene]

Esteban,

Look at this ribbon, it has a very distinct pattern, but it's not made of wood :)

Alexei

[Bogdan]

Gentlemen,

I have been looking through the forum for a thread concerning the suspensions of orders and medals. I am wondering why some come with brass and others come with aluminum. Now I know that suspensions, ribbons, and the links connecting the medal to the suspension can all be changed at will by anybody. So my main concern is the origin of these suspensions, not whether or not a piece has its original suspension or not.

Anything? TIA

[Nota Bene]

Bogdan,

For the most part it's an uncharted area. Obviously, an aluminum suspension would not be original to a WWII issue defense medal, but nobody had ever done a research on what type of suspension goes with what medal. An excellent (in my view) attempt at classifying them is here:

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Alexei

[Tretov]

One reason that old WW2 awards come with new aluminium suspension may be that they have at some point been mounted on one long suspension and then someone has broken it up and placed the awards on what suspensions was on hand when, for example, selling the awards individually:

194x Single brass -> 196x Combined on long suspension, steel/brass/alu/ -> 199x Split to single aluminium

[Bogdan]

Thanks Alexei and Tretov,

The mondvor site has been helpful by way of pictures although I can read a little Russian. Also, I can see how Tretov's chronology illustrates the point of the suspensions being changed according to how the medals/orders are worn or then how they were sold. This does give me a better idea of this subject though and I appreciate the info.