"Sükhbaatar" Order.

[rboomsma]

[QUOTE=Dolf]Ron,


As for comparing the quality of these new brass Orders with the old silver/gold ones... well, can we compare a Rolls Royce with a Fiat Punto?... :-))
I do have one of these new brass Orders, a Polar Star, and indeed, no possible comparision...
I wouldn't buy one of these S-B, unless if a real bargain, but I'd like to add to my collection one of each of the other Orders, just as a kind of curiosity I guess.


Hello Dolf

I understand you, and that you want to add to your collection new and interesting items. My Soviet & Mongolian collections are keeping my wallet empty so I have decided to just stick to the Older stuff. All though I just bought an Order of Stalin with empty doc, just coudn't resist:)

[Dolf]

Ron,

I also perfectly know what you mean by "empty wallet"... believe me!... ;)
I think no sentence resumes better this hobby as the one Alexei has on his posts and/or site: "Collecting can be addictive". Yes Sir it can indeed! :eek:

So, as I say on my previous post "I'd like to add to my collection...", but between I'd like and I will... :o

By a Order of Stalin I guess you mean one of those new Umalatova pieces, right?
Nice piece after all.

Best,

Dolf

[Felix]

Originally Posted by Dolf

Felix,

Are you aware of the new brass, made of 1 piece Type for all other Mongolian Orders, Red Banner of Combat Valor, Red Banner of Labor Valor, Order of Combat Valor and Order of Polar Star, from 2003-2004?

I know they do exist.

So why not for the Order of Sukhbaatar?!

Dolf

Yes Dolf, I'm aware of them. But I thought that the order of Sukhbaatar was no longer attributed, apparently, it's not the case. So a current issue makes sense.

[Dolf]

Guys,

Just as an update, the above posted Order of S-B was sold for $800.00 (By it Now option) :rolleyes:

About the price I paid for my real Gold pinback piece!... :eek:

Just wish to add that I have final confirmation that these new S-B Orders do really exist.
Probably not currently issued but they are originally made in Mongolia anyway.

Dolf

[new world]

Originally Posted by Dolf

Just wish to add that I have final confirmation that these new S-B Orders do really exist.
Probably not currently issued but they are originally made in Mongolia anyway.

Dolf

Gentlemen - what kind of confirmation are we talking about?

Just to put to an end to this insanity - I will believe this is new variation when someone will present legitimate group with one of these awards. I'd like to see the official document proving the fact this new variation was indeed given to someone.

Otherwise this junk is the same to me as the cheap modern copies Kapral sells in Russia. And Kapral stuff is of better quality... And they were "originally made in" Russia. ... But somehow no one in his right mind claims Kapral stuff is new variation.

William

[Dolf]

The confirmation I have is from the most reliable source I know on this subject, a Mongolian expert, Dr. A. Battushig, author of the "Mongolian Orders, Medals & Badges".

As I state on my previous post these Orders are "probably not currently issued", which means that people are not being awarded with this new type of the Order.

Now, I don't know if they are being manufactured by the State mint or private jewellers, or if they are official or not, but I'll try to get that information and will post it here when I get it.

Anyway, I only said that "these new S-B Orders do really exist"... :cool:

Here are the latest updates I got on this new Order of S-B:

These Orders are being manufactured by the former State mint (which was privatised in the meantime).
They are still being awarded by the Mongolian authorities, including a normal official Doc, therefore they are official awards.
The pieces awarded by the Mongolian State are numbered. Those not numbered we occasionally see for sale lately, have most probably been smuggled out by some mint employee(s), and of course have not been awarded to people.
This new Order was established this last summer, in July-August 2005, so only a very few have been awarded to people (don't know how many so far), making it very hard for the moment to get a copy of an official Doc.
They are made of different pieces like the older ones, but of brass.

Voilà! My source is imho 100% trustworthy, so I believe the info provided to be 100% accurate!

I'll keep doing some more research on this subject and will try to find out a prove that people have been awarded with such new Order of Sukhbaatar.
Even if I can't get a copy of an official Doc (almost impossible for the moment as stated above) I'll try something else, maybe I can find some newspaper mentioning the awarding ceremony, maybe even containing a picture, will see.

By the way, in my right mind I'd never claim Kapral stuff to be a "new type or variation" of whatever!... :rolleyes:

My researches about people being recently awarded with the new Order of Sukhebaatar brought me here:

http://www.montsame.mn/

Unfortunately I can't read that (I guess you can so maybe you can translate it for us), but the title on Google says it all:

ASASHORYU AWARDED WITH SUKHBAATAR MEDAL ... Under the order
of the Mongolian President, Asashoryu D.Dagvadorj, a state honoured athlete ...

Hope this is enough as a prove for you!
It is for me.
As well as the confirmation from Mongolian people, that indeed this young sumo wrestler Dolgorsuren Dagvadorj, or Asashoryu (Blue Dragon of the Morning) was recently awarded with the Order of Sukhebaatar by Mongolian President.

Dolf

[vatjan]

Dolf,
Do you have a date for that rewarding?
Jan

[Dolf]

I still don't have a date but I believe this happened recently.

Btw I was right now on Google, the research continues... :p
Unfortunately I can't seem to have the news on that link posted above translated in a language I can understand :(
I'll keep trying.

Btw, your help would be welcome on this issue so any info you may be able to provide would be very much welcome. ;)

It took some time of research with Google, but...

Here it is: (from Japan Today News)

SUMO
Asashoryu receives honor in Mongolia

Friday, December 9, 2005 at 07:32 JST
ULAN BATOR — Mongolian grand champion Asashoryu received yet another honor Thursday when he was awarded the Order of Sukhbaatar in his homeland for making sumo history.


I hope this helps "to put to an end to this insanity"...
It seems obvious to me that the words "junk" and "cheap modern copies" aren't the more appropriate to describe this new Type of the Order of Sukhebaatar...

Dolf

[new world]

Dolf,

I am confused.

First you state that according to a reliable source "these Orders are "probably not currently issued", which means that people are not being awarded with this new type of the Order."

Then you quote Japanese news agency that this new "variation" was awarded just last Thursday, Dec 8th 2005.

I would not put much faith in a newswire by a Japanese reporter, as even local news folks make often don't know what they're talking about and confuse one award with another.

Until we have official document - nothing is proven with certainty.

William

PS: as for calling this "new verion" junk - it looks like junk to me, as well as to any collector who handled real Sukhe Bator order.

In the end - if you want to pay higher prices for questionable pieces than for authentic ones - it's your decision. I'd rather buy something else.

Originally Posted by Dolf

Gentlemen,

It took some time of research with Google, but...

Here it is: (from Japan Today News)

SUMO
Asashoryu receives honor in Mongolia

Friday, December 9, 2005 at 07:32 JST
ULAN BATOR — Mongolian grand champion Asashoryu received yet another honor Thursday when he was awarded the Order of Sukhbaatar in his homeland for making sumo history.


William,

I hope this helps "to put to an end to this insanity"...
It seems obvious to me that the words "junk" and "cheap modern copies" aren't the more appropriate to describe this new Type of the Order of Sukhebaatar...

Dolf

[vatjan]

From the Mongolian news agency Montsame:

08.12.2005 ASASHORYU AWARDED WITH SUKHBAATAR ORDER

Ulaanbaatar, /MONTSAME/. Under the order of the Mongolian President, Asashoryu D.Dagvadorj, a state honored athlete of Mongolia and the Grand Champion of the Japanese professional sumo, has been awarded with the Sukhbaatar order--the state top award. Asashoryu D.Dagvadorj won 15 times a victory at the sumo tournaments. At his meeting with D.Dagvadorj, the President Mr. N.Enkhbayar said The Mongolian people are proud of you - the Champion of the Japanese sumo. The main quality of athletes is to reach their goals. As you bravely promised, you have won the victory аt all competitions of this year . The President wished the Champion high successes in the upcoming competitions. B. Bolortuya

Still, not an official doc :rolleyes:
Jan