Fake KGB and "Egg" Badges

[deValcourt]

Well, the seller emailed me and said he had posted more photos, and so he has - this one.

Confidence is not high at this point.:rolleyes:

If I could just see one like this somewhere else (I've tried my usual websites and there is nothing like it anywhere that I know of) then I would feel better.

There does seem to be a layer of silver plating (what appears to be left is around the lower part of the blade) that I missed before - I think.:confused: So that is a plus, but I'm agreeing with Marc about the "gut" thing. I do have one other source to check when I get home, but it has only drawings (nothing like it in Avers either).

And Marc, I think Brendan may be referring to the seller's rep as somebody he has purchased from before - I don't know. But the eBay feedback score system is past ridiculous now with many sellers doing just about anything to make sure you give them 5 stars on all feedback areas (including refunding more than I actually paid - just for pointing out that he/she was about to commit fraud by making a claim against the postal service in his/her country because the item was packed badly :rolleyes:). Anything for a buck, right?

Eric, if you choose to come over to "this side" let me know.;) Sellers are always emailing me with offers for badges I already have (at better prices than most on the auction and elsewhere).

Phillip

[Nota Bene]

Guys,

You are not seriously thinking that any of them could possibly be genuine, are you?

Alexei

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Guys,

You are not seriously thinking that any of them could possibly be genuine, are you?

Alexei

Don't laugh too hard, my friend.;) The only thing that made me even raise all these questions was that little blue book of Soviet Law Enforcement badges (I can neither remember the title or author, nor can I seem to find it right now:o) that shows that some of the 60th anniversary badges did not have the heavy blue enamel on the shield, but rather looked like the other two. Having never seen an actual picture of one (there are only drawings in the book), I was just wondering if this is what one could look like.

I think we agreed that this actual badge doesn't "feel" or look quite right.

The other question is do you know of the LMD ever producing badges even remotely like this one?

Phillip

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Guys,

You are not seriously thinking that any of them could possibly be genuine, are you?

Alexei

Since it's not my area, I'm just trying to learn why people don't think it's genuine.

[deValcourt]

I finally did what I should have done a long time ago - I pulled mine out of the case.

Since I have no firm information that says the LMD did not mint badges like these, I will simply have to rely on a comparison of a known MMD version.

The first thing you notice is the lack of "depth" in the badge design - this one is very flat compared to the MMD version. Though whoever made it got the basic details of where things should be in terms of most of the proportions and "texture" of the ribbon beneath the enamel, the height to which the elements (60, star, ribbon and lettering) rise is not even close to the same. If you turn it over, the reverse is even more obviously "flat" by comparison. It was the reverse that first made me doubt the badge. Note the detail of everything on the reverse - ribbon "texturing" and even patterns in some of the rivet impressions and on the curl of the hand guard on the sword. You can also see the "heighth" of the "depth" I am talking about, especially on the 60 and the star. In comparison, the one for sale looks like it was simply stamped out en masse. Moreover, from the ribbon down to the bottom of the badge, the blood grove in the blade is missing in the ePay version and the Ribbon and blade just meld together - unlike the one here.

Another thing that I first thought I didn't see, then tried so hard to see that I started believing it had been there before, is the silver wash. All of the KGB Moscow Mint "Honored Employee" and anniversary badges were coated in silver plating (except the earliest ones made from solid silver). This layer is definitely missing completely from the badge and this does not happen that evenly with normal wear. The missing silver plating is most apparent on the reverse.

The other thing about all of these badges was the peculiar effect the enamel has of being concave or "indented" rather than curved slightly outward as is the case on most other badges, medals and orders. I asked for close-up pictures of the ribbon for just such a reason.

Lastly, the only reference book I have seen that has a 60th anniversary badge as even being possible as anything different than the one pictured is a catalog of badges that are all hand-drawn. There is nothing in any of the Avers books I've seen or own to indicate a variation.

From a logical point of view, if there were some made by the Leningrad Mint in 1977 for the local branch, the LMD standards of production would have been the same as the Moscow Mint - regardless of the colors (or lack thereof).

It just doesn't meet the same standards of sharp detail, to my eye, as what one would expect from either of the two mints.

Phillip

[Lapa]

Phillip,

Good analysis and great explanation :thumbsup

Marc

[Nota Bene]

Phillip :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Here's my two kopeks: a genuine badge would not a have a fake LMD mint mark. This mint mark is absolutely wrong, not to mention huge.

Alexei

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Phillip :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Here's my two kopeks: a genuine badge would not a have a fake LMD mint mark. This mint mark is absolutely wrong, not to mention huge.

Alexei

Thank you guys - that is high praise. The LMD mark was on my mental list, but I wasn't sure enough to put it in writing.:)

As for the badge itself, well it just sold for $225.:mad: Nothing to be done when people don't know where to go for help before spending...

Phillip

[Nota Bene]

The mint mark is always my number one checkpoint for either badges or O&M. When it's bad, chances are the item is bad ;)

Alexei

[deValcourt]

"Egg" badges are not my forte since I haven't figured out all of the many variations, but this MVD 50th anniversary badge looks odd to me. First, the enamel in the photo looks bad. Second, the screwnut cannot be correct since by the time this badge would have been issued, mints were very specific in identifying themselves. Third, the seller is known for pushing quasi-quality copies as the real thing at very reasonable prices.:mad:

Another question is about the serial number. Was that the only thing on the reverse of these badges?

Phillip