Pilot's Badge - Page 3

Chris · 05-31-2003, 03:38 PM

Here are a few I just picked up …50ties engineer grade 1 and 2 and a grade 2 navigator…it is like yours except the No two is a separate attachment.

Nice badges…quite hard to get hold of still and relatively cheap.

Great to hold and look at.

I have seen others in this post which show the stamped No2 and not the attached No 2.

The bomb is curved but scans are not good at 3D.

I believe it to be genuine...if it is not recorded else where...just part of this mad game.

This is its screwback...guess the original was lost, the new one is a nice touch.

Chris

mcwirsk · 06-01-2003, 12:38 AM

Dear Chris

A question about these wings.

1. Are these wings given to all airforce engineers or do they have to be flying to qualify.

2. Is a navigator also a qualified pilot? I ask this becuase in some of the books I have read I see that qualified pilots acted in various positions.

3. Is there a distinction between the wings issued to bomber pilots and fighter pilots?

Kind regards

Munroe

Chris · 06-01-2003, 01:35 PM

1. Are these wings given to all air force engineers or do they have to be flying to qualify.

My humble opinion would be that they are aircrew qualified, as these are flight badges and not just engineer qualification.

2. Is a navigator also a qualified pilot? I ask this because in some of the books I have read I see that qualified pilots acted in various positions.

MY HO. Normally the aircrew went from tail gunner to navigator to pilot if they were deemed suitable (my father did this in WW2 RAF) but not the other way around.

The Germans do have however a pilots and a pilot/observers badge.

I can see a pilot being used in other roles if in the extreme or if they held that position before being badged pilot.

3. Is there a distinction between the wings issued to bomber pilots and fighter pilots?

My HO. Good question. I do not believe so, but there is a variation between schools and air arms.

Monroe I am just starting to get an interest in aviation badges, these answers are based on my experience with the military.

I will ask some former Russian aircrew I know…. probably get a chance soon as I will be parachuting and the aircrew are all ex soviet trained (Russian Parachutes as well D6.)

Regards Chris

otlichnik · 06-02-2003, 03:20 AM

Up until the end of WWII there were a huge number of different wings, as Chris said they were for different schools, services, etc.

After the war the became more standardized.

There were basically three types of wings - pilot, navigator and engineer. There were of course many wings when you take into account the different models/dates and the fact that some came in up to 5 classes of specialty (Master/Sniper, 1, 2, 3, and 0).

These wings were only for qualified flight personnel. This meant officer in almost all cases. So standard mechanics and even aircrew like gunners on the old 1950s-60s bombers did not get wings. A ground based engineer could have wings if he was qualified to operate as in-flight engineer.

Navigators were actually navigator/payload specialists - hence the original bomb shape for their wings.

Interestingly, there was no seperate naval infantry wings from the end of WWII until 1991. Naval pilots wore regular wings during this period. It was the development of actual carriers that prompted the navy to make its own badge. It is not clear if it was to be issued to all Soviet naval pilots or if shore based pilots would still use the standard wings.

Chris, your navigator's wings look odd. They appear to be M1950, the only type which had just the bomb (not the bomb on a shield) with numbers. However, the M1950 should have red enamel numbers set into the bomb, not a meal number affixed to the bomb. Also, the bomb should be very cuved (convex) and not flat.

Shawn

Tal Inbar · 06-08-2003, 03:14 PM

Seems that he didn't have res[ect to Soviet currency...

Tal

Chris · 07-13-2003, 01:24 PM

I was not sure if this should go in the graduation badges... but it is not for a school but for an Army Technical Aviation course circa 1938.

Chris

Chris · 07-13-2003, 04:48 PM

I have put together my three wing badges....I am going to spend as much time and effort to find others.

They do exist.

Chris

Tal Inbar · 11-29-2004, 02:36 PM

On ebey, described as original WW2 era , obviously a reproduction:

Lapa · 11-29-2004, 08:03 PM

Tal,

Can you please elaborate on the "obvious" features that make this badge a fake.
Thank you in advance,

Marc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapa

Tal,

Can you please elaborate on the "obvious" features that make this badge a fake.
Thank you in advance,

Marc

Tal,

Any input ... ?

Marc

matteti · 11-26-2005, 01:04 PM

Do they look ok?

And what are they?
1) Engineer 1980s?
2) Pilot 3rd class 1950?
3) Military Navigator 3rd class 1966?

Seems fine to me, but I am new to this.

Thanks.

06-01-2003, 01:35 PM	#23
Chris Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 188	Dear Monroe 1. Are these wings given to all air force engineers or do they have to be flying to qualify. My humble opinion would be that they are aircrew qualified, as these are flight badges and not just engineer qualification. 2. Is a navigator also a qualified pilot? I ask this because in some of the books I have read I see that qualified pilots acted in various positions. MY HO. Normally the aircrew went from tail gunner to navigator to pilot if they were deemed suitable (my father did this in WW2 RAF) but not the other way around. The Germans do have however a pilots and a pilot/observers badge. I can see a pilot being used in other roles if in the extreme or if they held that position before being badged pilot. 3. Is there a distinction between the wings issued to bomber pilots and fighter pilots? My HO. Good question. I do not believe so, but there is a variation between schools and air arms. Monroe I am just starting to get an interest in aviation badges, these answers are based on my experience with the military. I will ask some former Russian aircrew I know…. probably get a chance soon as I will be parachuting and the aircrew are all ex soviet trained (Russian Parachutes as well D6.) Regards Chris

06-08-2003, 03:14 PM	#25
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Seems that he didn't have res[ect to Soviet currency... Tal __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

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06-01-2003, 12:38 AM	#22
mcwirsk Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sandton, South Africa Age: 59 Posts: 92	Dear Chris A question about these wings. 1. Are these wings given to all airforce engineers or do they have to be flying to qualify. 2. Is a navigator also a qualified pilot? I ask this becuase in some of the books I have read I see that qualified pilots acted in various positions. 3. Is there a distinction between the wings issued to bomber pilots and fighter pilots? Kind regards Munroe

06-02-2003, 03:20 AM	#24
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Up until the end of WWII there were a huge number of different wings, as Chris said they were for different schools, services, etc. After the war the became more standardized. There were basically three types of wings - pilot, navigator and engineer. There were of course many wings when you take into account the different models/dates and the fact that some came in up to 5 classes of specialty (Master/Sniper, 1, 2, 3, and 0). These wings were only for qualified flight personnel. This meant officer in almost all cases. So standard mechanics and even aircrew like gunners on the old 1950s-60s bombers did not get wings. A ground based engineer could have wings if he was qualified to operate as in-flight engineer. Navigators were actually navigator/payload specialists - hence the original bomb shape for their wings. Interestingly, there was no seperate naval infantry wings from the end of WWII until 1991. Naval pilots wore regular wings during this period. It was the development of actual carriers that prompted the navy to make its own badge. It is not clear if it was to be issued to all Soviet naval pilots or if shore based pilots would still use the standard wings. Chris, your navigator's wings look odd. They appear to be M1950, the only type which had just the bomb (not the bomb on a shield) with numbers. However, the M1950 should have red enamel numbers set into the bomb, not a meal number affixed to the bomb. Also, the bomb should be very cuved (convex) and not flat. Shawn

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