Prices/Value Discussion. - Page 40

Alex.S · 08-22-2005, 12:13 PM

Hi

I Do Not Think That Hsl Will Be Good Invesment, In My Opinion It Will Be Better To Invest Money In Suvorov 3 , Kytyzov 3, Lenin Screwback, Early Order Of Red Banner Sssr, Rsfsr

Thanx
Alex

Tretov · 08-22-2005, 02:09 PM

Well, at the moment, the money does not grow at all, they are in a bank locker and not in an account. Assuming I would put them into a bank account, they would generate annually 0.4% interest for me, ie. 12 USD first year and then a little more each year (I dont have time to do the exact calculus at time of writing, but you know what I talk about).

Now, the HSL group would both fill an empty space in my collection, and be an interesting purchase. Soviet awards get more scarce each day and just looking at the german WW2 items today, the scarcer awards are very expensive.

The question is then, will the Soviet awards decrease in value over the next 10 years? Will they be cheaper? I dont know, but on the other hand, I do not know how the stock shares of Finnair or Nokia will develop for the next days either.

Nack · 08-22-2005, 02:27 PM

I would think that less-risky investments are the way to go. I got a short-term CD (18 months) with a 4% interest rate, and my savings account yields something like 3%. I can't image that banking abroad is that much different.

Chuck In Oregon · 08-22-2005, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=Tretov]Well, at the moment, the money does not grow at all, they are in a bank locker and not in an account. Assuming I would put them into a bank account, they would generate annually 0.4% interest for me, ie. 12 USD first year and then a little more each year (I dont have time to do the exact calculus at time of writing, but you know what I talk about). QUOTE]

"I'm not as concerned about the return ON my money as I am the return OF my money." Will Rogers

Try googling invest collectible and read a few of those articles, including those motivated by an intense desire to sell something.

You originally wrote "I think this would be a good investment." You've read the comments -- not everyone agrees. If you still feel that way, what's stopping you? I'd hate to lose $3K but you won't if it's a good group and it wouldn't be the end of the world if you did. Take a chance. What's the downside, that you'll lose some money? It happens. Everyone who has ever bought an expensive collectible has taken the same chance. If you can't afford to lose any money, pick something safer. Just don't confuse buying this group with mainstream investing. It is speculating in the form of buying a collectible at retail. Think about it.

Chuck

HuliganRS · 08-22-2005, 03:39 PM

Tretov,

Personally, I do not consider an HSL group to be a good investment. I'm sure it's a nice group but you have to understand that if you want to make a profit later you should look into rarer Orders of Red Star (screw-post base), Red Banner, etc... Items that in X years someone will still be able to afford. I don't know a single person who starts collecting Soviet Awards and is willing to buy a Kutuzov 3 at some $7,000+
On the other hand, a collector that has a suspended Red Banner may want to get a screwback version or WWII Red Star with a number below 1 million.

If investment is a way for you or your wife to justify spending $3,000 but in reality you are more collector and not really planning to sell it anytime soon, then I would suggest getting this group! Groups that are complete will always be in demand!

There are no guarantees in this hobby!
You can have a group with Suvorov1, Kutuzov1 and Khmelnitsky1 but try selling it at $300,000+ see how many collectors are running to sell their house to get this group.

Rusty.

new world · 08-22-2005, 09:14 PM

Tretov,

Another important factor - HSL group is LABOR award, not MILITARY. Many collectors I know have no interest in non-combatant awards / groups, making HSL group much harder to sell. If this was complete HSU group - I'd say "yes, go for it".

If you are considering an investment - at least pick up one that's liquid, one that would be easy to sell.

Also, I'd try avoiding dealers at this point - presumably they price at a premium to market price (but these days it does not hold true in all cases, as some US dealers' prices are lower than prices in Russia). If at a later point you try selling back to the same dealer - you would rarely get full price back.

For investment I'd rather consider real estate at this point, you'd be safer in the long run.

William

new world · 08-22-2005, 09:33 PM

Just checked what one NJ dealer's asking for Labor awards:

$3900 for Red Banner of Labor T2 V3 SN 9456
$1595 for Badge of Honor T2 V4 SN 14767

I remember two-three years ago these were selling for:

RBL - for $300
BOH - for $150

That's more than TEN TIMES increase!!!!

William

Tretov · 08-23-2005, 10:36 AM

Thanks for all input, this really gave me something to think about!

If I buy it, it will most likely be as a addition to my collection. It would be my crown jewel

Nack · 08-23-2005, 12:24 PM

I think that that NJ dealer may be hastening the collapse of the Soviet-awards market. It seems to me that he is such a large force in the market here, and he seems to like to push the envelope on prices, that he is going to kill off his own market by driving buyers out.

Also, the talk of buying awards for investments makes me think that those speculators are really the only ones willing to buy at these high prices (besides really rich folk who have play money). If those people try to sell and noone is buying, we may see the bubble burst, like Florida home values soon I think...

rboomsma · 08-23-2005, 01:42 PM

I have to agree, dealers are the ones I think pushing the market to it's limits.
This dealer in particular. His prices are always to the extreme. He is pushing away the very people he wants to buy from him. There aren't that may Bill Gates out there willing to pay such stupid prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Nackowicz

I think that that NJ dealer may be hastening the collapse of the Soviet-awards market. It seems to me that he is such a large force in the market here, and he seems to like to push the envelope on prices, that he is going to kill off his own market by driving buyers out.

Also, the talk of buying awards for investments makes me think that those speculators are really the only ones willing to buy at these high prices (besides really rich folk who have play money). If those people try to sell and noone is buying, we may see the bubble burst, like Florida home values soon I think...

08-22-2005, 03:39 PM	#395
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Tretov, Personally, I do not consider an HSL group to be a good investment. I'm sure it's a nice group but you have to understand that if you want to make a profit later you should look into rarer Orders of Red Star (screw-post base), Red Banner, etc... Items that in X years someone will still be able to afford. I don't know a single person who starts collecting Soviet Awards and is willing to buy a Kutuzov 3 at some $7,000+ On the other hand, a collector that has a suspended Red Banner may want to get a screwback version or WWII Red Star with a number below 1 million. If investment is a way for you or your wife to justify spending $3,000 but in reality you are more collector and not really planning to sell it anytime soon, then I would suggest getting this group! Groups that are complete will always be in demand! There are no guarantees in this hobby! You can have a group with Suvorov1, Kutuzov1 and Khmelnitsky1 but try selling it at $300,000+ see how many collectors are running to sell their house to get this group. Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

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08-22-2005, 12:13 PM	#391
Alex.S New Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CLEVELAND Posts: 12	Hi I Do Not Think That Hsl Will Be Good Invesment, In My Opinion It Will Be Better To Invest Money In Suvorov 3 , Kytyzov 3, Lenin Screwback, Early Order Of Red Banner Sssr, Rsfsr Thanx Alex

08-22-2005, 02:09 PM	#392
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	Well, at the moment, the money does not grow at all, they are in a bank locker and not in an account. Assuming I would put them into a bank account, they would generate annually 0.4% interest for me, ie. 12 USD first year and then a little more each year (I dont have time to do the exact calculus at time of writing, but you know what I talk about). Now, the HSL group would both fill an empty space in my collection, and be an interesting purchase. Soviet awards get more scarce each day and just looking at the german WW2 items today, the scarcer awards are very expensive. The question is then, will the Soviet awards decrease in value over the next 10 years? Will they be cheaper? I dont know, but on the other hand, I do not know how the stock shares of Finnair or Nokia will develop for the next days either.

08-22-2005, 02:27 PM	#393
Nack Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Buckeye State Age: 46 Posts: 513	I would think that less-risky investments are the way to go. I got a short-term CD (18 months) with a 4% interest rate, and my savings account yields something like 3%. I can't image that banking abroad is that much different.

08-22-2005, 03:19 PM	#394
Chuck In Oregon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 209	[QUOTE=Tretov]Well, at the moment, the money does not grow at all, they are in a bank locker and not in an account. Assuming I would put them into a bank account, they would generate annually 0.4% interest for me, ie. 12 USD first year and then a little more each year (I dont have time to do the exact calculus at time of writing, but you know what I talk about). QUOTE] "I'm not as concerned about the return ON my money as I am the return OF my money." Will Rogers Try googling invest collectible and read a few of those articles, including those motivated by an intense desire to sell something. You originally wrote "I think this would be a good investment." You've read the comments -- not everyone agrees. If you still feel that way, what's stopping you? I'd hate to lose $3K but you won't if it's a good group and it wouldn't be the end of the world if you did. Take a chance. What's the downside, that you'll lose some money? It happens. Everyone who has ever bought an expensive collectible has taken the same chance. If you can't afford to lose any money, pick something safer. Just don't confuse buying this group with mainstream investing. It is speculating in the form of buying a collectible at retail. Think about it. Chuck

08-22-2005, 09:14 PM	#396
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Tretov, Another important factor - HSL group is LABOR award, not MILITARY. Many collectors I know have no interest in non-combatant awards / groups, making HSL group much harder to sell. If this was complete HSU group - I'd say "yes, go for it". If you are considering an investment - at least pick up one that's liquid, one that would be easy to sell. Also, I'd try avoiding dealers at this point - presumably they price at a premium to market price (but these days it does not hold true in all cases, as some US dealers' prices are lower than prices in Russia). If at a later point you try selling back to the same dealer - you would rarely get full price back. For investment I'd rather consider real estate at this point, you'd be safer in the long run. William

08-22-2005, 09:33 PM	#397
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Just checked what one NJ dealer's asking for Labor awards: $3900 for Red Banner of Labor T2 V3 SN 9456 $1595 for Badge of Honor T2 V4 SN 14767 I remember two-three years ago these were selling for: RBL - for $300 BOH - for $150 That's more than TEN TIMES increase!!!! William

08-23-2005, 10:36 AM	#398
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	Thanks for all input, this really gave me something to think about! If I buy it, it will most likely be as a addition to my collection. It would be my crown jewel

08-23-2005, 12:24 PM	#399
Nack Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Buckeye State Age: 46 Posts: 513	I think that that NJ dealer may be hastening the collapse of the Soviet-awards market. It seems to me that he is such a large force in the market here, and he seems to like to push the envelope on prices, that he is going to kill off his own market by driving buyers out. Also, the talk of buying awards for investments makes me think that those speculators are really the only ones willing to buy at these high prices (besides really rich folk who have play money). If those people try to sell and noone is buying, we may see the bubble burst, like Florida home values soon I think...

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