Translation Help

[jefflgarrison]

Hi,

Got this photo with a "Order of the Red Star". While it is not the star I purchased, I am interested in the information on the back.

Some I can make out but the rest is cryptic. Can anyone help?

I know the photo is from 1941 and the Colonel is named M.A. Klimenko.

What else is written there?

[Lapa]

Jeff,

"Voenkom 82 ?
Polkovnik
M A Klimenko
Photo November 1941
Kuybyshev"

Marc

[jefflgarrison]

I am assuming Kuybyshev would be the village where the photo was taken but "Voenkom 82"? Is that a division or unit number?

[Sergei]

It is not Kuybyshev, it's Kubinka, an air base either near Moscow or Smolensk (I am sure I have been there 17 years ago but God help me to remember where it is:banghead ) It was not necessarily an air base in 1941 though.
As for the lettering after 82, does it look like McD corrected into MCD which would make it 82nd Moto-Strelkovaia Divisia (or Division)? (C stands for S in Russian) Somebody, please help translating this into English. Sergei.

[jefflgarrison]

Yeah, had someone else tell me that as well. A little info on Kubinka from Wikipedia: Kubinka (Russian: Куби́нка) is a town in Moscow Oblast, Russia. It is located on the Setun River, 63 km west of Moscow. It was the location of the Soviet Union's tank proving grounds, and today is the home of the Kubinka Tank Museum

Could the 82 MCd? be referring to 3d (82nd) guard Motorized division, which took attacks on Khalhin-Gol in 1939, defended Moscow in 1941-1942, freed Mozhaysk and Borodino Field from the enemies?

[Sergei]

Of course it's the tanks, not airplanes! Have you seen the museum's website, maybe somebody there could find a story to go with the photo. Sergei

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by Sergei

It is not Kuybyshev, it's Kubinka...

Sergei is absolutely right about that. I just read too fast the first few letters and extrapolated the rest as "Kuybyshev" :banghead

Marc

[Dave]

On 22 October 1941, the 82nd Motor Rifle Division was sent "west of Moscow", which is why it probably was at Kubinka in November 1941. They entered combat with the 5th Army that month and fought around Moscow. Because of it's actions, it became the 3rd Guards Motor Rifle Division on 18 March 1942.

Source: Charles Sharp "The Deadly Beginning" Soviet Tank, Mechanized, Motorized Divisions and Tank Brigades of 1941-1942.

Hope that helps!

Dave

[matteti]

Hello fellow members,
I have two questions regarding research documents.

1) Are my translations right?

"Ctarshiy Pomoshchnik Nachalnik Otdela PVO, 22 Armiya, Kalininskiy Front"
Senior Assistant of the Chief of Anti-Aircraft Defense Department, 22nd Army, Kalinin Front.

"Nachalnik Otdela PVO, 22 Armiya, Kalininckiy Front"
Chief of Anti-Aircraft Defense Department, 22 Army, Kalinin Front.

2) What exactly is the "Nachalnik Otdela"? Was it seeing some war action or it was just some H.Q. in the field far fron the combats where the planning and strategy was done.

Thanks in advance.

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by matteti

1) Are my translations right?

"Ctarshiy Pomoshchnik Nachalnik Otdela PVO, 22 Armiya, Kalininskiy Front"
Senior Assistant of the Chief of Anti-Aircraft Defense Department, 22nd Army, Kalinin Front.

"Nachalnik Otdela PVO, 22 Armiya, Kalininckiy Front"
Chief of Anti-Aircraft Defense Department, 22 Army, Kalinin Front.

2) What exactly is the "Nachalnik Otdela"? Was it seeing some war action or it was just some H.Q. in the field far fron the combats where the planning and strategy was done.

There is basically nothing wrong with your translation. In these cases "otdel" might be better translated "section", but you can still go with department. Also, I may be partial as a US Army guy, but "PVO" is correct as is, but I prefer "air defense artillery".

A "nachalnik otdela" is correctly translated "chief". In the military you usually have commanders in charge of troop units that more directly engage the enemy or accomplish tasks with large amounts of soldiers supporting combat action. "Chiefs" are in charge of organizations not overseen by a true, troop commander. I won't bore you with the details, but chiefs usually have fewer people, but more financial or other type of responsibility and usually don't directly engage the enemy. This answers question #2 - but there is no predicting his level of "action". People in HQ get subjected to enemy action (ask anyone in Iraq/Afghanistan) and even more so in PVO where the enemy comes looking for you deep in the rear from the sky.