Patriotic War I,0160508,Political Deputy Commander,35th Guards Artillery Regiment

[Pobeda45]

Hi guys,

Here's my order of Patriotic War 1st Class, 1945. It's interesting in that the number was corrected from a "5" to a "6"; the screw was shortened for comfortable wear as is of course common.

The citation says that the order was given to (Political) Major Aleksandr Kondratov on February 7, 1945--for fighting in Altenberg, East Prussia. The award paper says that Kondratov "motivated fighters and commanders, personaly engaged the enemy and led by example."

I need to research the location further. From what I understand, the city of Altenburg is outside Leipzig, so not in East Prussia. Maybe another town by that name? Or a mistake in the citation? :confused:

Thanks for looking. :)

George

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by Pobeda45

Hi guys,

Here's my order of Patriotic War 1st Class, 1945. It's interesting in that the number was corrected from a "5" to a "6"

Well George, I hate to break it to you, but the only "corrections" on serial numbers I know of that weren't first buffed out and redone completely at the mint, were done by individuals trying to match a serial number to documents (and of course the same is done the other way around sometimes).

The upshot is that whatever the original number was, in this case presumably a 5, is the original number. With a mint correction there is almost no trace of a correction except to the highly trained eye and usually with the help of magnification equipment.

I'm sorry to say that this particular order is not the one mentioned in whatever paperwork you have with it.:(

The good news is that it is a very fine example of a GPW 1st class otherwise.

Phillip

[Pobeda45]

Thanks Phillip, interesting indeed. I've actually bought this without any document--researched the corrected number later. I hear you, I wondered why someone changed the number--but I doubt someone had a document for 160508 and a GPW1 for 150508, that would be a crazy coincidence... So I am leaning toward this having been incorrectly engraved and corrected at the mint, but could be corrected for another reason too. (like to match the award to the doc like you say :) )

George

[Alfred]

Can you post a better picture of the serial number?

I have seen corrected numbers before, in most cases to fit an award to the documents the whole serial number is rubbed out and a new one is engraved. Or the number in the book is bleached out to fit with the serial number on the award.

To my obersevation it is very difficult to get an award with only one different figure in the serial number.

best regards
Andreas

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by deValcourt

...the only "corrections" on serial numbers I know of that weren't first buffed out and redone completely at the mint, were done by individuals trying to match a serial number to documents (and of course the same is done the other way around sometimes)...

Phillip,

It was not always the case. When the engraver made a minor mistake that could somehow be corrected without too much problems, he simply did it. Full erasure of the SN is a much more involved, time-consuming process not worth undertaking for simple corrections.

Marc

[EricFG]

Originally Posted by Pobeda45

Kondratov on February 7, 1945--for fighting in Altenberg, East Prussia. I need to research the location further. From what I understand, the city of Altenburg is outside Leipzig, so not in East Prussia. Maybe another town by that name? Or a mistake in the citation? :confused:

What Army (&c) was he with? I found a (former) Altenberg/burg in Latvia, but I think that's too late for the date.

[Pobeda45]

Originally Posted by Alfred

Can you post a better picture of the serial number?

I have seen corrected numbers before, in most cases to fit an award to the documents the whole serial number is rubbed out and a new one is engraved. Or the number in the book is bleached out to fit with the serial number on the award.

To my obersevation it is very difficult to get an award with only one different figure in the serial number.

best regards
Andreas

Try this Andreas (attached). These are closeups from previous photos--I can take better ones if it helps too. :thumbsup In my observation, it's clean without any signs of reengraving. It didn't come with a document when I bought it; I got it from a top dealer too. (Dmitry ******) Could be done though.

Originally Posted by EricFG

What Army (&c) was he with? I found a (former) Altenberg/burg in Latvia, but I think that's too late for the date.

Thanks for the help Eric..let me doublecheck the citation / personal file doc and get back to you. :thumbsup

George

[Pobeda45]

I just realized that I had the scans of the docs in my email, cool deal.

Looks like the awardee was in Guards 35th Artillery Regiment. (35 гвардейский артиллерийский полк)
I am not yet sure who here reads Russian, (I do--was born there) but here are scans of some of Major Kondratov's award docs too. :thumbsup Sometimes I wonder, if these people only knew--that we'd be studying them 60 years later--in America of all places..

George

[Pobeda45]

..and the "uchetniy list"..interesting stuff always.

[Nota Bene]

Originally Posted by Pobeda45

Hi guys,

Here's my order of Patriotic War 1st Class, 1945. It's interesting in that the number was corrected from a "5" to a "6"; the screw was shortened for comfortable wear as is of course common.

I would prefer to see a blown up picture of the serial number, but looks like a mint correction to me.

Alexei