Order Booklets

[Lapa]

Mike,

I understand that Russian may not be your cup of tea, but answers to all of your questions exist on the Mondvor site. There, you'll see that there are 10 different types of order booklets, with details about their date of use as well as their serial numbers.

Marc

[SGM (ret.)]

Thanks, Marc.

That site is so comprehensive, that without knowing where to look or what to look for, it's very difficult to find precisely what I want to know.

In this case, though, knowing it was there was the clue I needed.

For other novices, like myself:

Based on information from the Mondvor site, the "Ordeskie Record" that I posted below is a Type 3, printed in Moscow, Goznak 1945.

It has the second version of the "General Rules of Orders, May 7, 1936" starting on page 3.

The booklet's serial number, 260,764, falls within the lower part of the serial number range for the Type 3 records.

I still have one question, though.

All of the examples illustrated on the Mondvor site (Types 1 through 10) have the printing on the cover in gold. My booklet's cover printing is in black.

In all other details, the booklet below conforms exactly to the Type 3's described and illustrated.

Is this black colored printing a known, and normal variation, or has the gold ink faded over the years, or is the black cover printing an indication of forgery?

By the way, for those that haven't tried it, does a pretty good job with the Russian on the Mondvor site.

It's a bit tedious to use at times, but does the job. You can translate text portions or entire web pages. Sometimes, however, it does not translate the html buttons or allow them to be used to navigage. So, it sometimes reqires translating each individual page on the site. (It also works well for many other languages.)

Mike

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by SGM (ret.)

...Is this black colored printing a known, and normal variation, or has the gold ink faded over the years, or is the black cover printing an indication of forgery?...

Mike,

You came up with the right answer: the gold ink faded (or got a patina) over the years :thumbsup

Marc

[Kirchgoens]

I'd guess that there is a very good chance that the reason your "privileges" and "booklet" date are both 1946 is because this CSM is a ten-year long service award. I guess it could be catch-up, but I don't know how they'd "privilege" date those. I'd guess it would go back to the date of the event or act (or severe wounding in the case of some OG3's).

Also (at least as far as I can tell), the "privileges" date is based on the first award listed. If you have more than one award, I think the earliest one corresponds to that date (even if this is the lesser award listed). Since this was all done post-war/post-demobilization (and often at the voenkomat), this booklet seems to usually be a 1946-1948 compiliation of awards if they were originally from the time of the GPW (again, only based on what I've personally seen).

...Brian

[Lapa]

?!? :confused:

[Kirchgoens]

That confused :confused: icon fortunately conveys emotion, but unfortunately doesn't tell me where I went wrong. I had thought that "указ" was the date of the booklet (often around '46 to '49 for GPW awards). I thought that the "Имеет право начиная" date was the "privileges" date (the date of the act or original award). Since there often is more than one award listed, I figured that privileges date could only belong to one award. From there, I figured that this date was probably for the earliest award. That seemed to generally jive with what I've seen in what limited research I have, and also by tracking on serial numbers from my booklets compared to similar blocks in EOW.

I'm new enough to this that I'm always looking for guidance from you older, wiser dudes. :) Someone please help me here. I'm assuming I mixed up my terms, or am I simply making a hash of it all?

signed,
Confused at GMT+5
:D

[Lapa]

Brian,

The booklet discussed in this thread is for an ORS awarded in 1943, but physically handed out in 1946. Where did you fish that CSM from? Also, in my experience, 99.9% of CSM awarded in 46 were not long-service related but catch-up awards.
Hence the :confused: face :D

Marc

[Kirchgoens]

I'm not sure what I was thinking when I wrote about the CSM in a thread about ORS. I've gone back and re-read, and now I'm wondering if I was mixing up threads with too many open windows, or just hitting the bottle. :)

On '46 CSM's being 99.9% catch-up, I don't want to even guess at that, so I'll just take your word for it until I see a pile of data that says otherwise. I guess since so many of those inducted prior to '42 didn't make it through the war, there may not have been too many left with a pulse to get their 10-year award. There sure seem to be a lot of long service ORS's floating around from the early/mid 50's, so I guess a few made it to the other side of the GPW. If so, there must have been a lot of LS CSM's in '47 through '49.

Wouldn't it be great if someone would do a giant serial number research project at the archives instead of having us buy award cards at $40/pop? It's so inefficient, not very cost effective, and no one is really capturing the data we purchase one card at a time... Now if only Uncle V would open up the archives to outside researchers... :chuckle I'd do it as a retirement hobby when I check off the net in a few years. Alas, I'd probably be arrested instead.

[Sergei]

Now if only Uncle V would open up the archives to outside researchers... I'd do it as a retirement hobby when I check off the net in a few years. Alas, I'd probably be arrested instead.

Kirchgoens,
Chances are, when you and I retire, Uncle V (as you so succintly suggested) will still be around. (I take it you meant Uncle the 5th?:D)
Sergei

[Kirchgoens]

I was thinking along the lines of "Дядя В", and I suspect that the scion of that family shall reign for many years to come, under many a guise, as is the fashion in these times... ;)