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Old 05-16-2012, 04:19 PM   #1
Tomahawk
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Czesław Herbst, Miner.

Hi people!
I´m new in this forum, but i didn´t see where to present myself...so I´ll start here!
I´m a spanish collector of PRL Militaria...so I think this is my place! :D
So I´ll begin with my group of the 3 versions of Merit Cross (Krzyz Zaslugi) given to Czeslaw s.Antoniego in the years 1956, 1970 and 1979.
Hope you like them!
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #2
RedMaestro2
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
Hi people!
I´m new in this forum, but i didn´t see where to present myself...so I´ll start here!
I´m a spanish collector of PRL Militaria...so I think this is my place! :D
So I´ll begin with my group of the 3 versions of Merit Cross (Krzyz Zaslugi) given to Czeslaw s.Antoniego in the years 1956, 1970 and 1979.
Hope you like them!
Welcome to the forum, "Tomahawk"! It's nice to have another PRL collector on board. :thumbsup

This is a nice little group. Would you be able to post scans of the documents please?

Looking forward to seeing more of your collection (especially documented groups, if you have).

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:54 AM   #3
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

Hi!
Thanks for the welcome! :thumbsup
For sure i´ll post more of my items, it´s a humble collection, but i´m proud of it :D
RedMaestro2, here are pics of the documents, not a scan, sorry!
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:01 PM   #4
RedMaestro2
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
Hi!
Thanks for the welcome! :thumbsup
For sure i´ll post more of my items, it´s a humble collection, but i´m proud of it :D
RedMaestro2, here are pics of the documents, not a scan, sorry!
Thanks for the pictures! The recipient of these medals was a coal miner. See:

dokumenty.rcl.gov.pl/M1956058070501.pdf

#91 on the bronze cross list.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:40 AM   #5
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

gentlemen, could you indicate to us how to proceed a research on the polish database you showed to us? I'm eager to try researches about my groups before showing them... I have some things to show. Great period! I bought last week the very excellent Wojchiech Stela second book about PRL awards...

dokumenty.rcl.gov.pl/M1956058070501.pdf

Biuletyn Informacji Publicznej Instytutu Pamięci Narodowej
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:29 AM   #6
RedMaestro2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlet View Post
gentlemen, could you indicate to us how to proceed a research on the polish database you showed to us? I'm eager to try researches about my groups before showing them... I have some things to show. Great period! I bought last week the very excellent Wojchiech Stela second book about PRL awards...

dokumenty.rcl.gov.pl/M1956058070501.pdf

Biuletyn Informacji Publicznej Instytutu Pamięci Narodowej
The first link above is to the Monitor Polski, where PRL decrees were published (see: Monitor Polski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). I think awarding decrees are only included until the late 50's.

"Al-Muell" would be able to discuss the IPN database better than I. I admit, so far I've just used it to search without actually reading what it is.

Try your administrative colonel in IPN!

Thanks very much for the explanation. Very informative! :thumbsup

Would you be able to provide a link to the database for Warsaw Uprising veterans please?

Another question:

Why were awarding decrees only published in the Monitor Polski up to then? Are they available elsewhere?

Last edited by CtahhR; 05-20-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:26 AM   #7
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The IPN - Instytut Pamięci Narodowej (Institute of the National Memory) is a state instution here in Poland, whose nature is hard to define - simply put, it combines function of scientific institution, archive, prosecution service and few more. The institution is somewhat controversial and is sometimes nicknamed "History Police", but this is not the place to discuss that matter.

What interests us, is the fact, that they arein possesion of probably all polish 1944-1990 UB/SB State Security files (personnal nad case) that were not destroyed in the late 80's. Theoretically, there apart from the workers of the IPN, only Scientists, Journalists, and people (or their heirs) who were victims to the repressions or were simply being under observation by the State Security are allowed to view the files, however, much of the data has already been published in books and articles and also for the last few years, they have been runninmg an on-line database in which they publish data on three categoriesof people:
1.People that the state security were interested in - the data is: base data (name, date and place of birth, parents' names, aliases) and the information on why the state security was interested in them (with file's inventory number etc.)
2.People who were officers, soldiers or secret co-operators of the State security - the data is: base data and service record with some additional info sometimes.
3.People who had the high state or party (for PZPR only, not the other parties) functions - the data is: base data and the list of functions with the dates.

The database is easily accessable:
1.open the Biuletyn Informacji Publicznej Instytutu Pamięci Narodowej website
2.In the box in the upper right corner enter the name, mark "we wszystkich katalogach" (in all the catalogues) box ant click on "szukaj" (search) button
3.A list of the names will appear (if You have entered only the surname, the list can be long), click on the name of the person that interests You (if that person was found)
4.A base data on the person will appear and below it - the cattegories the person falls into. Click on the category name, and the data will apear.

The problem with the database is that it is being updated in a very slow rate and it is hard to find out wether the database was recently updated or not.
There is, however, a way to find out wether the IPN has a file on a certain person even if it can't be found in the database. Some 6 years ago, a certain journalist has copied the catalogue of the personnel files that were at that time in the IPN inventory list (that doesn't mean it was allm they had) and published it in the internet. If You google for "Lista Wildsteina", You might be able to find this list. Be careful tough - there were some falsified versions of the list in the internet - not only with names like "Donald Duck " on it but also with the names of the people that someone disliked added.
Anyway, people on that list were either State Security employees/colaborators or the ones that the state security was interested in.

BTW, here's my short article on that database (also with info on the participants of the Warsaw Uprising database, but that one will be discussed later):
O kolekcjonowaniu odznacze� inaczej – cz�� trzecia - dobroni.pl

In Polish. Sorry.

Quote:
Would you be able to provide a link to the database for Warsaw Uprising veterans please?

Another question:

Why were awarding decrees only published in the Monitor Polski up to then? Are they available elsewhere?
The database for the Warsaw Uprising participants:
Powstańcze Biogramy
It is incompleate and contains mistakes (I have found one myself while doing a deeper research on Długoszowski's group, but from what I have heard there's much more), but it may be useful to learn something about the vets. The search box is below the text on that site. There's also a list of the people in the database that can be accessed by clicking the link "Lista powstańczych biogramów" that is directly above the search box.

As for the awarding decrees in the Monitor Polski - I don't know. If the decrees were available until 1952, it would be easy to explain - at that time the new constitution was accepted and president's powers were given to the State Council (a "collective president"), and it would be possible that their award decrees were not published. It is also possible that awarding decrees were at some point considered "secondary activity" of the authorities and thus were no longer published in the Monitor Polski.
I think that the whole Monitor Polski is available on-line.
You may try addressing the Chancellary of the President of Poland, they do have the list of awardings from later periods (I have received a confirmation about my great-grandfather's awarding that way), but they aren't very helpful - unless You ask them very clearly, they will only answer: "yes, was awarded X award by the Y decree" or "We have no data on that person being awarded with X"

Last edited by CtahhR; 07-09-2014 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:43 AM   #8
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

thanks a lot for all these indications.

Redmaestro, how did you success to find the right digital copy of the Monitor Polski, with the correct decree?
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:59 AM   #9
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Re: Polish Award Groups!

Thanks, "Al-Muell"! :thumbsup

Quote:
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thanks a lot for all these indications.

Redmaestro, how did you success to find the right digital copy of the Monitor Polski, with the correct decree?
I just got lucky. The decrees in Monitor Polski only seem to go up to the late 50's (I don't remember exactly, but maybe 1957?). They are all searchable pdf's, so if you punch the recipient's name in google with quotes ("Surname, First-name patronymic") you should get the right result.

But again, there may not be a result because not only are the decrees limited to the 50's, but they don't seem to include all recipients. For example, I've searched several 1954 medals without success. I don't know what the pattern is yet, but it might be that only public workers like trade union officials or state enterprises employees are listed. The The two military/internal affairs names I searched had no results.
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