NKVD soldiers?

[Al-muell]

Judging the strange colour of the cap, I would guess that at least the sgt. to the left (with ORS and 3wound stripes) is a NKVD Soldier.
But then there are some problems when You look at his uniform:
1. He has a single-breasted parade uniform (ok, maybe this was taken before 1945)
2.He has no collar tabs on his collar. Why?
And of course I may be wrong and the cap may be of other service. But then which one?

[Lapa]

Al-muell,

I don't mind looking, as you suggest, but you need to provide the necessary material :cool:

Marc

[Al-muell]

:o
Ooops! This is how it ends when You do more than one thing at a time.
Cursed be the multitasking...

[CtahhR]

If the medal on the right hand chappy is a defence of Moscow it could be pre-45.

[RichieC]

Originally Posted by Al-muell

A - Judging the strange colour of the cap, I would guess that at least the sgt. to the left (with ORS and 3wound stripes) is a NKVD Soldier.
But then there are some problems when You look at his uniform:
1. He has a single-breasted parade uniform (ok, maybe this was taken before 1945)
2.He has no collar tabs on his collar. Why?

And of course I may be wrong and the cap may be of other service. But then which one?

Hi Guys,

My thoughts:

A- It is a sepia toned B&W photo. I myself find it impossible to determine what color(s) the cap may be.

1- He is wearing an M43 Kitel which did not adorn collar tabs. NCOs were permitted to wear them at times.

2- See above.

[Al-muell]

Well, To me, it looks like a cap with different top colour. But it is possible that it's just my imagination.

He is NOT wearing the m43 service "kitel" tunic, as this one had breast pockets and his jacket doesn't. To me it looks more like parade "mundir" tunic, which, unless I am mistaken, should have collar tabs.

btw. Did all NCOs have right to wear service kitel, or just the extended service personnel?

[RichieC]

The image is very, very grainy - and distorted. As for the distortion; note how low the pocket is on the other man's gymnasterka.

I could swear that I see the outline of a pocket flap on the man's (in question) right breast, and also the top seam on his left. But of course, one's perception differs from another's in many cases.

As far as kitels and NCOs are concerned, I have not yet learned about the official regulations. I do however, own a few period images of NCOs adorned in officer type clothing and accoutrements - most of them being cadets IMO. I would be more than happy to share them with you and the other members of the forum.

[EricFG]

Always happy to see new pictures, Richie. Not to mention learning stuff about GPW uniforms and regs. :)

[Al-muell]

Originally Posted by RichieC

The image is very, very grainy - and distorted. As for the distortion; note how low the pocket is on the other man's gymnasterka.

I could swear that I see the outline of a pocket flap on the man's (in question) right breast, and also the top seam on his left. But of course, one's perception differs from another's in many cases.

As far as kitels and NCOs are concerned, I have not yet learned about the official regulations. I do however, own a few period images of NCOs adorned in officer type clothing and accoutrements - most of them being cadets IMO. I would be more than happy to share them with you and the other members of the forum.

I may be wrong, but after examining the actual photograph with the magnifying glass I would say there are no pockets. Also, on service "kitel" the pocket flap's upper edge is at the level of the second button's center, while here It is the ORS's center that seems to be at the same level as the button's center - which seems to reflect the regulations for award wearing on parade "mundir". But as said - may be wrong.

I have also seen photographs of NCO's in service "kitel" and officer's double-breasted overcoats, but I tought it's like in the later regulations - that extended service NCO's should wear the same uniforms as the officers. But on the other hand, during the WW2 almost every soldier's service was extended, tough not necessarily upon his own request.....

[vvadim]

Originally Posted by Al-muell

on service "kitel" the pocket flap's upper edge is at the level of the second button's center, while here It is the ORS's center that seems to be at the same level as the button's center - which seems to reflect the regulations for award wearing on parade "mundir". But as said - may be wrong.

Pockets not always at the level of the second button.

Your guy most likely is labor camp guard from MVD and that photograph is from yearly fifties.