Opinions about early group

new world · 01-08-2008, 05:58 PM

Colleagues,

Please post your opinions about award book for this early group (1940 Red Star!).

Does the book look legit and does the combination of awards make sense?

Some stamps look pale, so here's the list of awards as they are entered in the book:

Red Star - sn 18992
Red Star - sn 33239
OPW 1 cl - sn 184474
OPW 2 cl - sn 173709
OPW 2 cl - sn 180854
Red Banner - sn 515134

Thank you,

William

Nota Bene · 01-08-2008, 06:36 PM

William,

Before we start discussing it, could you please post complete scans of the first and second pages of the Order Booklet.

Alexei

new world · 01-08-2008, 09:22 PM

Alexei,

here you go:

new world · 01-08-2008, 09:23 PM

Order book page 2

new world · 01-08-2008, 09:24 PM

order book page 3

Alex.S · 01-08-2008, 09:51 PM

looks good to me

will it be for sale?

thank you
alex

EricFG · 01-08-2008, 10:24 PM

I'm no expert, and if Alex says "OK" then I'd feel pretty darn good.
But, to me all the serial numbers were written at one time by the same hand. I don't know, I'm asking: "can that happen? Are there Order Booklets with medals awarded from, say, 1942 to 1946 that were written at one specific point in time?"
Common sense tells me that individual numbers (and stamps) should be different from each other as they were entered at different times by different hands.
Or was all this done at once when the craziness of the GPW was over?

jefflgarrison · 01-09-2008, 02:02 AM

First, I should ask, it is normal for a 1945 issue OPW 1cl to be written before a 1944 OPW 2cl in an order book?

The only reason I would say that the orders would be written by the same hand would be a duplicate book to replace one that was lost. However, since there is no sampe stating duplicate, I would call it a fake.

Second, While the number may all fall within the 1940-1946 range, I would pass due to my first question.

The 515,??? Red Banner would be a Long service award from 1956 according to Paul's book. However, it is written in the same handwriting as the awards above it.

Pass! Too many red flags.

Lapa · 01-09-2008, 04:11 AM

Guys,

Eric pointed out to the handwriting. If you look closely, the book issue date is written in a different style than all the other figures (especially "4").
Also, it is unlikely that an ORB with such a high number would have been awarded by 1946. It is most likely a long-service award from the 1950's. How likely is it that the very same person was at the very same post to fill out the additional entry?

IMHO, no go :thumbsdown

Marc

new world · 01-09-2008, 09:52 AM

Colleagues,

thank you very much to all who contributed to analysis of this group.:thumbsup

I had my own doubts, just wanted to hear broader opinion.

I decided not to keep the group and return it to the seller.

William

01-08-2008, 09:51 PM	#6
Alex.S New Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CLEVELAND Posts: 12	hi looks good to me will it be for sale? thank you alex

01-08-2008, 10:24 PM	#7
EricFG Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Naples, Florida, USA Age: 59 Posts: 1,496	I'm no expert, and if Alex says "OK" then I'd feel pretty darn good. But, to me all the serial numbers were written at one time by the same hand. I don't know, I'm asking: "can that happen? Are there Order Booklets with medals awarded from, say, 1942 to 1946 that were written at one specific point in time?" Common sense tells me that individual numbers (and stamps) should be different from each other as they were entered at different times by different hands. Or was all this done at once when the craziness of the GPW was over? __________________ "patina imparts character" - PJS A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'

01-09-2008, 02:02 AM	#8
jefflgarrison Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Gdańsk, Poland Age: 59 Posts: 381	First, I should ask, it is normal for a 1945 issue OPW 1cl to be written before a 1944 OPW 2cl in an order book? The only reason I would say that the orders would be written by the same hand would be a duplicate book to replace one that was lost. However, since there is no sampe stating duplicate, I would call it a fake. Second, While the number may all fall within the 1940-1946 range, I would pass due to my first question. The 515,??? Red Banner would be a Long service award from 1956 according to Paul's book. However, it is written in the same handwriting as the awards above it. Pass! Too many red flags. __________________ "Who will come to us with a sword - will be killed by a sword. Who will come to us with a feather - will be tickled by a feather!" - citation of Alexander Nevski

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01-08-2008, 06:36 PM	#2
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	William, Before we start discussing it, could you please post complete scans of the first and second pages of the Order Booklet. Alexei

01-09-2008, 04:11 AM	#9
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Guys, Eric pointed out to the handwriting. If you look closely, the book issue date is written in a different style than all the other figures (especially "4"). Also, it is unlikely that an ORB with such a high number would have been awarded by 1946. It is most likely a long-service award from the 1950's. How likely is it that the very same person was at the very same post to fill out the additional entry? IMHO, no go :thumbsdown Marc

01-09-2008, 09:52 AM	#10
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Colleagues, thank you very much to all who contributed to analysis of this group.:thumbsup I had my own doubts, just wanted to hear broader opinion. I decided not to keep the group and return it to the seller. William

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