Russian ANZACs

ANZAC · 04-24-2007, 12:13 AM

As ANZAC day approaches tomorrow in what is one of Australia's most defining day's, and I prepare to march wearing my Granfather and Fathers awards, I want to share the following story about Russians enlisting in the Australian Army and fighting for their adopted country.

Many Russians came here in the first decades of the twentieth century—the years just before the First World War were the peak period. Others were seamen who left their ships here. The main centre for Russians was Brisbane, with Stepanoff’s boarding house the focal point of the community, but there were groups also in Melbourne and Perth. They joined up because Russia was fighting in the war and they couldn’t go back to enlist there. But one soldier, after fighting at Gallipoli, tried to find his way home. Others joined up because of nascent Australian identification.

After the war they had divided loyalties. To whom should the Russian Anzacs be loyal? To the current Bolshevik regime? Or to the Russia they had left but which no longer existed? Some supported the Soviet government out of a misguided and romantic loyalty to the land of their birth, in contrast to Russian immigrants who came after the First World War, who were mostly anti-Soviet refugees.

They found it hard to adjust, and some were restless and impoverished. Most married, had families, threw down roots and led stoic, hardworking lives with little material success. Isolated, they got a raw deal not because of prejudice but because of lack of interest. Nobody took up their cause—they were too dispersed and individualised to attract sympathy.

The most tragic case was the journalist Peter Chirvin from Vladivostok, who fought bravely at Gallipoli and on the western front, was twice wounded and won the Military Medal. On the troop ship coming home, he was taunted by his fellow soldiers over his Russian background, developed delusions about Bolshevik conspiracies, and committed suicide.

Peter Komersaroff was in contrast, a success story. Like Chirvin he fought and was wounded on the western front. After the war he set up as an optician in Melbourne, and worked to assist Jewish immigration to Australia in the late 1930s. At a meeting of the Carlton-Fitzroy sub-branch of the RSL in 1943, when a resolution was moved against foreign-born persons conducting business in the area, he tore up his RSL card and never joined again.

A striking case was Basil Greshner. His father, the secret police chief in Nizhny Novgorod, was assassinated by a revolutionary in 1905. Basil jumped ship in Geelong in 1915. By the time he enlisted, he had acquired tattoos with both Russian and Australian insignia, signifying his dual allegiance. On the western front he performed an extraordinary act of bravery and was awarded a DSM. In 1932 Greshner left Australia to visit his mother and relatives in Russia, whom he found living in Moscow in terrible conditions. He was interrogated by the OGPU, imprisoned, and on release, got back to Australia as quickly as possible.

I hope you all found it interesting

Beer and two-up gambling for me tomorrow

Regards

Brendan

Dante688i · 04-24-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANZAC

I hope you all found it interesting

Beer and two-up gambling for me tomorrow

Brendan,

Very interesting stuff - thanks for sharing!

I'll raise a draft to you on the 25th in hopes of adding to your good luck with the coins.

- Sean

Koopyetz · 04-24-2007, 07:10 AM

ANZAC:
Thank you very much for the interesting story. You are an excellent writer.
I felt as if I was reading a history textbook.
Regards
Rick

ANZAC · 04-26-2007, 06:29 PM

How lucky is this.....

While forming up for Marching in the Anzac parade on Wednesday I spied what I thought was an elderley gentleman wearing some Red Banners. Pushing through the crowd I came to the section of 'Allied Forces'. Looking around I saw the man again and he was wearing what I believed to be a T1V2 Nevsky, 4 Red Banners and a wealth of other awards.

Not having time to approach him I memorised where he was in the march and was intent on finding him after the formalities.

2 Hours later I set off amongst the thousands of veterans and their families looking for what I hoped to be an insightful meeting. Tracking back along the street I found where the Allied Forces Banner was and lo and behold I found this gentlemen. Plucking up the courage to approach him, since I was more interested in his story than his awards at the time, I introduced my self and my hobby on collecting Soviet Awards.

By chance his name was Alexei and was more than happy to talk, i was wrapped with this since a lot of veterans are reluctant to recount their time in war. We proceeded to a nearby bar and sat in a quiet corner and told me the following story over a 3 hour period. His memory was excellent some places but clouded in others.

He joined the Army with his friends shortly after the Invasion of the Soviet Union he ended up being attached to the 13th Guards Rifle Division which was part of the 5th Guards Army. I asked him what was his most vivid memory of the war? His answer made my eyes pop out of my head, Stalingrad! First of all I thought he was having me on, but as he spoke more and more about details I new this old man had been there.

He had crossed the Volga to the city under intense artillery fire, they were sent straight away into action to capture 'Mamayev Kurgan'. they captured the hill and kept pushing towards the railway station. The suffered heavy losses and he himself was wounded. Out of 10,000 men most were killed or wounded.

He refused to be evacuated and stayed on the hill helping repulse countless German counter attacks. He was eventually moved down the hill and treated.

At this point in his story he seemed reluctant to go further. i didn't push it and thanked him for sharing a part of history that he was involved in creating. We spoke for a little while longer about his awards and how they were presented to him. I was cursing that I didn't have my camera, but maybe that's how it should've been.....

Brendan

Nack · 04-26-2007, 10:18 PM

Very cool, to say the least. Probably not a lot of Russkies out there in Oz. Very cool to see he still considers us all allies after the long history after the war.

BTW, the ANZAC memorial in Sydney is the best war memorial I've ever seen.

Lapa · 04-27-2007, 06:18 AM

Tim,

The Russian community is quite important down there, especially in Melbourne and Sydney.

Marc

Nack · 04-27-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapa

Tim,

The Russian community is quite important down there, especially in Melbourne and Sydney.

Marc

Oops, I had meant to say GPW-vet Russians.

In any event, I was unaware of those communities. Mea culpa. I didn't run into anything Russian in Australia, but did notice that beets were eaten on everything.

ANZAC · 05-01-2007, 12:06 AM

I also neglected to mention that while talking to the elderly veteran he drank vodka, I drank beer. I

guess old habbits die hard.

He also mentioned with a sarcastic grin that vodka was plentiful so as to bolster the moral of the troops. Having drank vodka (to much in fact) I understood what he was saying, it sort of has a 'superman' effect if you drink just the right ammount.

Brendan

Hyperfocal22 · 05-16-2007, 08:27 PM

Anzac,

Last week while in Melbourne I came across a book in Boarders on this subject.

If memory serves me well it was called Russian Anzacs. May be worth a look.

Best wishes
David

ANZAC · 05-16-2007, 09:47 PM

Yes, I have seen the book. It tends to talk about immagration why, when and how more so than actual combat experiences. Though all in all it's not to bad.

Brendan

04-24-2007, 12:13 AM	#1
ANZAC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 59 Posts: 343	Russian ANZACs As ANZAC day approaches tomorrow in what is one of Australia's most defining day's, and I prepare to march wearing my Granfather and Fathers awards, I want to share the following story about Russians enlisting in the Australian Army and fighting for their adopted country. Many Russians came here in the first decades of the twentieth century—the years just before the First World War were the peak period. Others were seamen who left their ships here. The main centre for Russians was Brisbane, with Stepanoff’s boarding house the focal point of the community, but there were groups also in Melbourne and Perth. They joined up because Russia was fighting in the war and they couldn’t go back to enlist there. But one soldier, after fighting at Gallipoli, tried to find his way home. Others joined up because of nascent Australian identification. After the war they had divided loyalties. To whom should the Russian Anzacs be loyal? To the current Bolshevik regime? Or to the Russia they had left but which no longer existed? Some supported the Soviet government out of a misguided and romantic loyalty to the land of their birth, in contrast to Russian immigrants who came after the First World War, who were mostly anti-Soviet refugees. They found it hard to adjust, and some were restless and impoverished. Most married, had families, threw down roots and led stoic, hardworking lives with little material success. Isolated, they got a raw deal not because of prejudice but because of lack of interest. Nobody took up their cause—they were too dispersed and individualised to attract sympathy. The most tragic case was the journalist Peter Chirvin from Vladivostok, who fought bravely at Gallipoli and on the western front, was twice wounded and won the Military Medal. On the troop ship coming home, he was taunted by his fellow soldiers over his Russian background, developed delusions about Bolshevik conspiracies, and committed suicide. Peter Komersaroff was in contrast, a success story. Like Chirvin he fought and was wounded on the western front. After the war he set up as an optician in Melbourne, and worked to assist Jewish immigration to Australia in the late 1930s. At a meeting of the Carlton-Fitzroy sub-branch of the RSL in 1943, when a resolution was moved against foreign-born persons conducting business in the area, he tore up his RSL card and never joined again. A striking case was Basil Greshner. His father, the secret police chief in Nizhny Novgorod, was assassinated by a revolutionary in 1905. Basil jumped ship in Geelong in 1915. By the time he enlisted, he had acquired tattoos with both Russian and Australian insignia, signifying his dual allegiance. On the western front he performed an extraordinary act of bravery and was awarded a DSM. In 1932 Greshner left Australia to visit his mother and relatives in Russia, whom he found living in Moscow in terrible conditions. He was interrogated by the OGPU, imprisoned, and on release, got back to Australia as quickly as possible. I hope you all found it interesting Beer and two-up gambling for me tomorrow Regards Brendan __________________ "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." Marshall Geogi Zhukov to General Eisenhower, 1945

04-26-2007, 06:29 PM	#4
ANZAC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 59 Posts: 343	An Interesting Conversation How lucky is this..... While forming up for Marching in the Anzac parade on Wednesday I spied what I thought was an elderley gentleman wearing some Red Banners. Pushing through the crowd I came to the section of 'Allied Forces'. Looking around I saw the man again and he was wearing what I believed to be a T1V2 Nevsky, 4 Red Banners and a wealth of other awards. Not having time to approach him I memorised where he was in the march and was intent on finding him after the formalities. 2 Hours later I set off amongst the thousands of veterans and their families looking for what I hoped to be an insightful meeting. Tracking back along the street I found where the Allied Forces Banner was and lo and behold I found this gentlemen. Plucking up the courage to approach him, since I was more interested in his story than his awards at the time, I introduced my self and my hobby on collecting Soviet Awards. By chance his name was Alexei and was more than happy to talk, i was wrapped with this since a lot of veterans are reluctant to recount their time in war. We proceeded to a nearby bar and sat in a quiet corner and told me the following story over a 3 hour period. His memory was excellent some places but clouded in others. He joined the Army with his friends shortly after the Invasion of the Soviet Union he ended up being attached to the 13th Guards Rifle Division which was part of the 5th Guards Army. I asked him what was his most vivid memory of the war? His answer made my eyes pop out of my head, Stalingrad! First of all I thought he was having me on, but as he spoke more and more about details I new this old man had been there. He had crossed the Volga to the city under intense artillery fire, they were sent straight away into action to capture 'Mamayev Kurgan'. they captured the hill and kept pushing towards the railway station. The suffered heavy losses and he himself was wounded. Out of 10,000 men most were killed or wounded. He refused to be evacuated and stayed on the hill helping repulse countless German counter attacks. He was eventually moved down the hill and treated. At this point in his story he seemed reluctant to go further. i didn't push it and thanked him for sharing a part of history that he was involved in creating. We spoke for a little while longer about his awards and how they were presented to him. I was cursing that I didn't have my camera, but maybe that's how it should've been..... Brendan __________________ "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." Marshall Geogi Zhukov to General Eisenhower, 1945

05-01-2007, 12:06 AM	#8
ANZAC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 59 Posts: 343	I also neglected to mention that while talking to the elderly veteran he drank vodka, I drank beer. I guess old habbits die hard. He also mentioned with a sarcastic grin that vodka was plentiful so as to bolster the moral of the troops. Having drank vodka (to much in fact) I understood what he was saying, it sort of has a 'superman' effect if you drink just the right ammount. Brendan __________________ "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." Marshall Geogi Zhukov to General Eisenhower, 1945

05-16-2007, 09:47 PM	#10
ANZAC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Age: 59 Posts: 343	Yes, I have seen the book. It tends to talk about immagration why, when and how more so than actual combat experiences. Though all in all it's not to bad. Brendan __________________ "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." Marshall Geogi Zhukov to General Eisenhower, 1945

04-24-2007, 07:10 AM	#3
Koopyetz Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York ,USA Posts: 91	ANZAC: Thank you very much for the interesting story. You are an excellent writer. I felt as if I was reading a history textbook. Regards Rick

04-26-2007, 10:18 PM	#5
Nack Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Buckeye State Age: 46 Posts: 513	Very cool, to say the least. Probably not a lot of Russkies out there in Oz. Very cool to see he still considers us all allies after the long history after the war. BTW, the ANZAC memorial in Sydney is the best war memorial I've ever seen.

04-27-2007, 06:18 AM	#6
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Tim, The Russian community is quite important down there, especially in Melbourne and Sydney. Marc

05-16-2007, 08:27 PM	#9
Hyperfocal22 New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Newcastle, Australia Age: 60 Posts: 5	Anzac, Last week while in Melbourne I came across a book in Boarders on this subject. If memory serves me well it was called Russian Anzacs. May be worth a look. Best wishes David

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)