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Soviet Titles And Prizes Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of authentic Soviet Titles And Prizes (Звания И Премии СССР) is here.

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Old 03-10-2007, 01:22 AM   #31
ibaya
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Here is a later, thinner variation. There is a break between the tip of the sickle and the edge of the star
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Old 03-10-2007, 01:27 AM   #32
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Questions were raised about this HSL elsewhere on the boards, but the serial number coincides with the earlier mention of the approximate range when the stars began to get thinner
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:00 PM   #33
Aharim
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Variations versus different specs

I note that the start of this string is somewhat old back to 2002 so you might not see this update but I agree with Alexi and more so.

I have been weighing HSL's since the early 90's. I wish I had PMcD's database because he could confirm that the difference noted here is more than think vs thin. The early thick are sometimes MORE THAN 1 GM heavier. A previous post quoted 17. gms. According to the "official" standard that would be BAD. 15.25 +/- 1.5 tops at 16.75. But every HSL that I have weighed below 6000 is then bad. They are all about 17.0! Now, if you are a faker you should be faking at 15.25 +/- .5 to be safe. So, who but a true Bolshevik would give too much gold to a recipient. Stalin's was first. So, I think they were heavier earlier and then later on/ perhaps about - oh say 1953 in March or April, the weight went down. But I think there was a determined plan in that hero star's that I also weighed went UP. So, for example there is an HSL on a noted New York/New Jersey Webpage listed at 16.7. on the edge unless I am correct and all the Bolsheviki have been misleading on purpose.

Think about it, if the weight of an early HSL is correct it is fake? ? ? Scary!

Do you have an HSL? please pm weights to me with number for my database.
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Old 09-30-2007, 05:03 PM   #34
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I'm posting a couple of pics of my HSL. #15,699 weighs 14.75 grams. Awarded in 1971
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:06 PM   #35
Nota Bene
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Aharim,

Here are some more:

#784 - 16.8 grams
3950 - 17.1
5968 - 16.6
15675 - 15.0
17268 - 14.9

Would love to see your data.

Alexei
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:10 AM   #36
Aharim
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More than a variation

Alexei your date for items under 6000 confirms mine. All but 5968 would fail the official spec. here are a few more:

1294 - 16.8
4000 - 17.0
5811 - 16.7

then

6233 - 16.5
7777 - 15.7

Those last two meet the spec but 6233 is on the cusp. It appears to me that the change occurs at or about 6000. Now the real question is whether there was a change at the time of award or as I suspect but can not prove did they order a batch like we see in Order of Lenin new book and then just use them up until they all were gone. SO perhaps 6000 each HSU and HSL were ordered in 1940 and used up. Then replaced. With HSU the change comes in 1943 but HSL not until the 50's and Khrushev takes the blame.

I find the same weight change happened on Hero Stars but the difference was not as substantial. Thus early HSU all come in at 20.0 plus or minus. There should be NO minus but I have seen 4 or 5 that all appear valid but for the weight. I have only seen ONE HSU at 21.5 below 5000. I believe it was a re-issue replacement on early suspension.

More later - I have other numbers and weights in a different computer.
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:42 PM   #37
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Aharim,

If you are talking about the specs published in the Kutsenko book (Muzalevsky just copies them), they refer only to the latest variations.

I agree with you about the HSU. When you (and I :)) have a moment let's compare our data.

Alexei
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:21 PM   #38
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HSL Weight data

Boev and Shemalyak in their book Highest step of distinction - Title of Hero of the Soviet Union (and) Title Hero of Socialist Labor - Medal "Gold Star" (and) Medal "Gold Sickle and Hammer" (whew), Kiev 2006.

On pages 44 and 45. Page 44 has the Ukaz on issuance of HSL dated 22 May 1940 and page 45 (undated) has the specs which list 15.25 grams.

Now if you turn the page to pages 46 and 47 the revising Ukaz of 3 March 1949 is dated as is the revised spec of 27 Junly 1981.

This is merely the latest to show the most recent specs. There are books that go back to the 1980's. I can't remember that 1985 or 1987 title where the spec dates are shown in footnotes. But again only the latest. This appears to be the same as gold head/silver head first noted in McDaniel and now 10 years later Durov talks about them finally. Someday someone will acknowledge that we are not crazy, I hope.

I have noted in a post under the fakes heading that the Boev and Shemalyak book also shows examples of badges that were covered here as questionable (again under fakes).
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Old 12-27-2007, 05:26 PM   #39
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Aharim,

I am a little skeptical of their books, and wasn't going to buy this one. Would you recommend it?

Alexei
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:58 PM   #40
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At $10 US it has good data, (hopefully) but as stated above, the badges shown include ones questioned here, Or their doubles. Since there is little or no information about labor heroes (which includes both scientists and politicos) I have it for the information.
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