The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum  
  • Serial Numbers Database 2.0
Enter Here

vBClassified Featured Listings
VoG Mazdi
Ukrainian NKVD/KGB 50th Anniversary Badge - B..,
11th Guards Army Veteran Badge
Crimean Veteran Badge
40 Soviet Army and Navy Mudretsov

Go Back   The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum > Soviet Awards Forums > Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics > Fake Alert! > Fake Titles

Fake Titles Questions, answers and General Information pertaining to fakes and copies of Title Awards and related items.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2015, 06:33 PM   #11
USSR
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Sakaida View Post
And expect to pay anywhere from $7000+ for a real HSU.
I will gladly pay $7,000 for a 100% original HSU. A well known dealer sold two stars recently well over $10,000 in a short period of time... They were only on his website for a couple of days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post
One has to consider the falling value of the rouble, certainly adds motivation - the price of many Soviets awards are dropping significantly.
I wonder which orders you are referring too. Maybe compared to 2008 but I haven't seen a recent decrease in prices of any orders apart from the common Red Stars, Red Banners and Glories 3rd class.
__________________
Up to 3 pictures may be added to a post.
USSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-06-2015, 06:37 PM   #12
CtahhR
Forum Administrator
 
CtahhR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Deep In The Archives.
Age: 13
Posts: 11,906
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

Of course the price fall starts in the items collectors/dealers want to get rid of first during "desperate" times. The common Medals were first and it is creeping upwards. I'm still actively collecting so I'm happy with being able to pick up some fabulous researched pieces for under $50. When the "junk" is gone desperate former collectors will have to sell higher and higher pieces until everything from top to bottom of the range is far more fluid (and cheaper).
__________________
"Signed with his own rubber stamp"
CtahhR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 06:46 PM   #13
USSR
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post
Of course the price fall starts in the items collectors/dealers want to get rid of first during "desperate" times. The common Medals were first and it is creeping upwards. I'm still actively collecting so I'm happy with being able to pick up some fabulous researched pieces for under $50. When the "junk" is gone desperate former collectors will have to sell higher and higher pieces until everything from top to bottom of the range is far more fluid (and cheaper).
That might very well be true but I haven't seen any proof of your theory yet. Nevskys for example have only become more expensive in my experience.

PS Something I just thought of... I have to partially agree which you. The more common Lenin orders: the price of those have dropped considerably. Almost to their gold value I think.
__________________
Up to 3 pictures may be added to a post.
USSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 06:47 PM   #14
CtahhR
Forum Administrator
 
CtahhR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Deep In The Archives.
Age: 13
Posts: 11,906
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

You will. Lots of trading has been going on "behind closed doors" but it'll certainly be far more evident as time goes on. The balance is certainly tipping toward a buyer's market. Not forgetting that Communist symbols are now banned in Ukraine (rather than the export of them being banned!).

I said DPRK items would continue to flood the market and drop in price and I was proven to be right and now I'm making a fairly similar statement about Soviet items. Although the two are certainly not parallel in quality, demand and rarity.

Wait and see. If your main currency is the US dollar you may be far better off buying a little later rather than sooner (although this may not be true for those in the Eurozone).
__________________
"Signed with his own rubber stamp"
CtahhR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 06:55 PM   #15
USSR
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 95
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post
You will. Lots of trading has been going on "behind closed doors" but it'll certainly be far more evident as time goes on. The balance is certainly tipping toward a buyer's market. Not forgetting that Communist symbols are now banned in Ukraine (rather than the export of them being banned!).
Interesting! I didn't know that. I suppose that's because of the recent tensions with Russia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post
I said DPRK items would continue to flood the market and drop in price and I was proven to be right and now I'm making a fairly similar statement about Soviet items. Although the two are certainly not parallel in quality, demand and rarity.
Also interesting. Do you know how this can happen? It is still difficult to get in or out of N-K right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post
Wait and see. If your main currency is the US dollar you may be far better off buying a little later rather than sooner (although this may not be true for those in the Eurozone).
Yup, the Greek will make everything more expensive for the EUSSR I suppose ;)
__________________
Up to 3 pictures may be added to a post.
USSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 07:02 PM   #16
CtahhR
Forum Administrator
 
CtahhR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Deep In The Archives.
Age: 13
Posts: 11,906
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

If I remember rightly Communist symbols were banned on 15th May in Ukraine due to their "problems" (Nazi symbols too).

The DPRK is as difficult (if not more so) as ever to get in and out of - most of the supply of items now entering the market is already outside the DPRK so that doesn't really influence supply much, news reports about it influence demand very slightly though. (I did mention all of this years ago)

With political and financial issues in more Eastern areas of Europe (most of Europe is east to me here in England) I'm very happy my income is in £ and $.

I wonder if there will be an influence on market prices from items being offered in Greece? I know those fakes in Cyprus won't cause real items to fall in value!
__________________
"Signed with his own rubber stamp"
CtahhR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 07:09 PM   #17
USSR
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 95
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

Quote:
Originally Posted by CtahhR View Post

I wonder if there will be an influence on market prices from items being offered in Greece? I know those fakes in Cyprus won't cause real items to fall in value!
Nope, it won't. But Greece will be influencing the value of the Euro sooner or later and thus be making items more expensive to the rest of the Euro zone.
__________________
Up to 3 pictures may be added to a post.
USSR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 01:59 PM   #18
Henry Sakaida
Member
 
Henry Sakaida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

Quote:
Originally Posted by KjetilK View Post
Good, bad?

Better to ask before bidding.
OK, out of boredom, I went to the auction site and found the HSU you are interested in. Are you bidder 0***. (19)? Don't answer that! I see it had a couple of people start bidding up the auction, then dropped out, and now, this is a battle between two neophytes 0***. and c***r (20). There are always snipers waiting at the very end! I guarantee you that!!

In checking this out, if it is a fake, then it is a damn good one! The stipling and patina seems right on, as well as other items which I won't discuss here which will help the fakers. The serial number matches the name of the recipient. All the dings and scratch and pitting are consistent with others I have seen.

I wish I knew more about the suspension part. It looks good, but once again, without comparing it side by side with an original, I just can't be 98% certain.

I am puzzled by the position of the 4 digit numbers...the numbers themselves are in the same style as others I have seen...I know of one HSU which is No.1392 and the position of this is not in the same exact level as 1256. Very slightly different. That's the only thing that glared out at me. I'm still learning about HSUs, but I have seen enough fakes to spot the obvious ones. The size of the numbers for Type 1s differs from Type 2s.

If you are going into the area of high end orders and medals, it is very important for you to get a copy of Paul McDaniel/Paul Schmitt's book called THE COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO SOVIET ORDERS AND MEDALS.

I wish I knew who the dealer is. I have a vague idea. The guy I am thinking of is a good guy.

And no, I am NOT going to bid, but I will keep my eye on this one to see if it goes for over $7000.

Good luck and always do your homework.
Henry Sakaida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2015, 05:17 PM   #19
Kjetil Kvist
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Age: 50
Posts: 36
Re: Fake Hero of the Soviet Union Medals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Sakaida View Post
If you are going into the area of high end orders and medals, it is very important for you to get a copy of Paul McDaniel/Paul Schmitt's book called THE COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO SOVIET ORDERS AND MEDALS.
Thank you for your input.

Yes, I have the book - bought it when it was issued. I'm mostly into Order of Glory 3rd class, and Bravery Medals. I like the research part, and how the war can be illustrated by the stories behind the medals. But, of course, a Order of Lenin issued for combat actions or a HSU Medal is the Holy Grail.

I'm not to worried about the price. At the moment I think I pick up nice Glory 3rd on eBay to fair prices, and the research work is always worth the dollars I spend. HSUs should be expencive. But I'm not good enough to spot the fakes, and that worries me a little bit.
Kjetil Kvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2015, 11:10 PM   #20
Henry Sakaida
Member
 
Henry Sakaida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 92
Check this out on that auction site:

Russian medal order hero of sovietunion in gold

HSU#11669. The serial number was NEVER awarded! But the suspension, looks really old and the ribbon is a replacement. The medal itself is pretty well dinged. How can that be if it was never awarded?

The seller has posted photos of very poor quality, and there is one "photo" which looks like it came from a photo copy! His story doesn't make sense, the serial number and condition of the medal doesn't make sense...and there are some other technical issues with the medal, but I won't divulge for the fakers who may be members or visit this site.

And to make this offering really enticing, the seller says this is a private auction and there is no refund. So check it out and learn something!

That seller of HSU#11669 didn't sell last week, no bidders, so he relisted it. Currently as I write this, it has 13 bids, and is now up to a whopping $265.00!!!

But wait! A bidder retracted his $2002.00 bid yesterday. Maybe he did some research. But if you are bidding serious money, you better do your research!I don't trust anything coming out of Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe, Cyprus, China. Are you willing to trust their money back guarantee?

And think about this: You pay $5000 for your medal, finally receive your REGISTERED package from Freedonia, open it, and you find a cheap $3 token? You file a complaint with the auction company and claim you were cheated; the seller states that he sent what you won, and that YOU are trying to cheat him! Sorry, but you loose. You opened the registered parcel.

What should you have done? Get it x-rayed first, then open it up in front of the postmaster and video tape the opening, and have him as your witness. Are you really going to do all this???

Save yourself the trouble. Just deal with a collector whom you know or with a reputable dealer.

Just hate to see members getting screwed. It happens because you get too excited, you are too trusting, you want to believe it's real, and you haven't done your research.
Henry Sakaida is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
fake hsu


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fake Hero of Socialist Labor Medals. USSR Fake Titles 6 01-23-2014 11:20 AM
Double Volume Hero of Soviet Union set desantnik Soviet Militaria For Sale Archive 1 12-09-2007 09:00 AM
Hero of the Soviet Union - children Soviet General Talk Archive 2 10-03-2005 12:21 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2011 Arthur G. Bates III