Communist Symbols banned ? - Page 2

DutchBoy · 02-05-2005, 05:14 PM

Let's face it...the number of people killed by communism AND Nazism put together still don't even come close to the number of people on Earth killed in the name of RELIGION throughout the years....just something to think about (including the bureaucrats in the EU). Seen in that light, communism and the nazis pale in comparison...

DougD · 02-05-2005, 06:35 PM

it would be a close race to add up the dead from religion and the dead from communism/naziism....all are based on a "us and them" belief system.

DougD

kabanchik · 02-05-2005, 07:05 PM

Forget Nazis, communists, fascists, royalists, revolutionaries.......etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. Just think of ALL the people killed, imprisoned, persecuted or oppressed by EUROPEANS!!! MY GOD, if we could only ban all EUROPEAN symbols!!!
With ALL there is to worry about in the world, what a complete waste of time to be banning THINGS! It makes me want to.....

Lapa · 02-05-2005, 07:19 PM

And what a complete waste of time and resource this thread is!

Marc

[Note: this opinion is protected by the First Amendment]

DougD · 02-05-2005, 07:53 PM

Sorry Marc, the 1st Amnd. does not apply to France....as for the thread, it is an interesting question (i think) in equating the symbols of the nazi and communist regimes...no one has to participate in it (or read it) if they do not want to.

DD

Esteban_cool · 02-05-2005, 08:23 PM

IMHO, I don´t think we should determine if the banning of a swastika or a hammer and sickle are more or less "justified" by the number of victims. This banning stuff, I think, will become a black spot. The Europeans have worked so hard to build their world of justice, comprension and tolerance that I would be sad if they start fighting for such a nimious banning matter. The people that has suffered from these regimes have the right to ban whatever they want, but they should leave these symbols and use them to show the world that things done under them must not let them to happen again, using them to remember the past and to show the generations still to come what happened before they came to this world and to understand some things that they wouldn´t understand in another way.

I wouldn´t like that happens in Europe what happened here. After 17 years of a bloody and brutal military regime, where both class and political repression were used to rule the country, they made everything possible to deform the history so we (the people of my age and less, even some people who lived these years) are not able to understand some basic things that happen today, still drowning in an ignorance we were imposed in 1973 and lasts until now, beacuse of all the lies they forced us to believe.
They turned us into a big mass of ignorants thanks to all this banning stuff.

So then, I strongly disagree banning.

Esteban

Dolf · 02-05-2005, 08:44 PM

Doug,

Thanks for the debate and the fair play.

I hope you are not mixing up Spain and Portugal, right?... Just neighbors, but different nations.
True they also lived under a fascist dictatorship for about the same number of years we did in Portugal, they had Franco, we had Salazar, quite a few other similarities but a lot of differences too... Anyway, Portugal is an independent nation since 1143.

Anyway, back to the topic, which is the symbols, swastika or hammer and sickle. Personnaly I don't see the hammer and sickle as a symbol of evil, but I see the swastika as a symbol of evil because for me there is a huge difference between both theories.

After a couple of posts considering this a lost of time, and worst, provocative as well as innacurate and showing some lack of knowledge, I prefer to end here my posts for this thread.

Doug, let's keep it private as it bores some other members, sorry guys

Please read my email.

Again thanks for the open mind and the fair play even if we disagree,

Dolf

HuliganRS · 02-05-2005, 08:53 PM

Guys,

Feel free to discuss the issue! Just keep it clean and don't make it personal. There are alot of members with different views and we have to respect them.

Thanks!

Rusty.

DougD · 02-06-2005, 10:21 AM

First, I have no problem with he thread. As a moderator I am always on watch for threads that don't belong; this is not one of them. Those who simply add that thay think the thread is silly are the ones wasting time; if they don't like the thread, don't read it or participate. Adding silly comments does not help anyone.

Second, yes, i was thinking Spain ( teaching the Spainsh civil war on Friday put Spain in my mind), sorry. I know of Portugal ( have an ex-Potuguese girlfriend) and their military rule.

Anyway, I understand that in your eyes the theory of communisim is not the same as naziism and that I understand. I guess I do not associate the hammer and sickle with the theory of communism, but with its practice. It was the practice of communism that created the victims. However, I am still of the opinion that no symbols should be banned; let ides live and die based on their merits.

So, we can agee to disagree...to those who don't like the thread, they can take a hike.

DougD

new world · 02-06-2005, 10:53 AM

Why not ban Christian cross for that matter? Inquisition in Europe and conquest of America killed no less people than Nazi/Soviet regimes (on a realtive basis, comparing number of victims to the world population at the time).

Sad truth is that in case new evil emeges in the world - they'll come up with their own new symbol...

William

02-05-2005, 05:14 PM	#11
DutchBoy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 153	Let's face it...the number of people killed by communism AND Nazism put together still don't even come close to the number of people on Earth killed in the name of RELIGION throughout the years....just something to think about (including the bureaucrats in the EU). Seen in that light, communism and the nazis pale in comparison... __________________ Matthijs P.

02-05-2005, 06:35 PM	#12
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	true it would be a close race to add up the dead from religion and the dead from communism/naziism....all are based on a "us and them" belief system. DougD

02-05-2005, 07:53 PM	#15
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	thread Sorry Marc, the 1st Amnd. does not apply to France....as for the thread, it is an interesting question (i think) in equating the symbols of the nazi and communist regimes...no one has to participate in it (or read it) if they do not want to. DD

02-05-2005, 08:23 PM	#16
Esteban_cool Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Age: 36 Posts: 1,103	MHO: Banning can be dangerous IMHO, I don´t think we should determine if the banning of a swastika or a hammer and sickle are more or less "justified" by the number of victims. This banning stuff, I think, will become a black spot. The Europeans have worked so hard to build their world of justice, comprension and tolerance that I would be sad if they start fighting for such a nimious banning matter. The people that has suffered from these regimes have the right to ban whatever they want, but they should leave these symbols and use them to show the world that things done under them must not let them to happen again, using them to remember the past and to show the generations still to come what happened before they came to this world and to understand some things that they wouldn´t understand in another way. I wouldn´t like that happens in Europe what happened here. After 17 years of a bloody and brutal military regime, where both class and political repression were used to rule the country, they made everything possible to deform the history so we (the people of my age and less, even some people who lived these years) are not able to understand some basic things that happen today, still drowning in an ignorance we were imposed in 1973 and lasts until now, beacuse of all the lies they forced us to believe. They turned us into a big mass of ignorants thanks to all this banning stuff. So then, I strongly disagree banning. Esteban __________________ There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight The Who, Won't get fooled again

02-05-2005, 08:44 PM	#17
Dolf Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Age: 68 Posts: 572	Doug, Thanks for the debate and the fair play. I hope you are not mixing up Spain and Portugal, right?... Just neighbors, but different nations. True they also lived under a fascist dictatorship for about the same number of years we did in Portugal, they had Franco, we had Salazar, quite a few other similarities but a lot of differences too... Anyway, Portugal is an independent nation since 1143. Anyway, back to the topic, which is the symbols, swastika or hammer and sickle. Personnaly I don't see the hammer and sickle as a symbol of evil, but I see the swastika as a symbol of evil because for me there is a huge difference between both theories. After a couple of posts considering this a lost of time, and worst, provocative as well as innacurate and showing some lack of knowledge, I prefer to end here my posts for this thread. Doug, let's keep it private as it bores some other members, sorry guys Please read my email. Again thanks for the open mind and the fair play even if we disagree, Dolf Last edited by Dolf; 02-05-2005 at 09:27 PM.

02-05-2005, 07:05 PM	#13
kabanchik Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA USA Age: 71 Posts: 80	Forget Nazis, communists, fascists, royalists, revolutionaries.......etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. Just think of ALL the people killed, imprisoned, persecuted or oppressed by EUROPEANS!!! MY GOD, if we could only ban all EUROPEAN symbols!!! With ALL there is to worry about in the world, what a complete waste of time to be banning THINGS! It makes me want to.....

02-05-2005, 07:19 PM	#14
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	And what a complete waste of time and resource this thread is! Marc [Note: this opinion is protected by the First Amendment]

02-05-2005, 08:53 PM	#18
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Guys, Feel free to discuss the issue! Just keep it clean and don't make it personal. There are alot of members with different views and we have to respect them. Thanks! Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

02-06-2005, 10:21 AM	#19
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	thread First, I have no problem with he thread. As a moderator I am always on watch for threads that don't belong; this is not one of them. Those who simply add that thay think the thread is silly are the ones wasting time; if they don't like the thread, don't read it or participate. Adding silly comments does not help anyone. Second, yes, i was thinking Spain ( teaching the Spainsh civil war on Friday put Spain in my mind), sorry. I know of Portugal ( have an ex-Potuguese girlfriend) and their military rule. Anyway, I understand that in your eyes the theory of communisim is not the same as naziism and that I understand. I guess I do not associate the hammer and sickle with the theory of communism, but with its practice. It was the practice of communism that created the victims. However, I am still of the opinion that no symbols should be banned; let ides live and die based on their merits. So, we can agee to disagree...to those who don't like the thread, they can take a hike. DougD

02-06-2005, 10:53 AM	#20
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Why not ban Christian cross for that matter? Inquisition in Europe and conquest of America killed no less people than Nazi/Soviet regimes (on a realtive basis, comparing number of victims to the world population at the time). Sad truth is that in case new evil emeges in the world - they'll come up with their own new symbol... William

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