Stolen Awards. - Page 11

DougD · 09-25-2003, 10:40 AM

Shawn is correct, museums often steal from themselves in Russia. I have gotten things from museums as they have sold or lessened their collections. Is that stealing? Who knows. There were a huge number of smaller museums that shut down and sold off their items. Larger museums also sold off items to raise funds. They had large reserve collections that could be used to support the rest of the museum.

But, yes, there have also been outright stolen items from museums. Its very difficult to find out where items are from; the Russian suppliers do not like to talk about it.

As for the other republics, in general they did get ownership of all items unless the items were on specific loan from the Central Red Army Museum. This caused a problem as Central asked for alot of stuff back that they never got. Alot of it was sold off by museums in Kiev and Minsk, etc. rather than return it.

DougD

new world · 02-04-2004, 10:50 AM

Some Soviet awards are on the search list put together by Interpol (Ukrainian branch). Take a look at the list - there's a list of serial numbers and detailed descriptions.

Here's the link:

http://icpo.centrmia.gov.ua/ART/number/number1.htm

William

new world · 02-04-2004, 10:53 AM

Strangely enough - they list some WWII campaign medals which don't have serial numbers or any other unique characteristics - how do they expect to those medals?

I guess if you have one of the medals in your collection - you're in trouble

Tretov · 02-04-2004, 12:43 PM

Jeez, do they not have any better tasks to waste the government money on? Drug smugglers, trafficing, frauds...

A friend who runs a small antique shop in Sweden said a few years ago that russian officials from the embassy used to come to his store and write down serial numbers from orders so that they could trace the owner and find out why he has illegaly sold his award... Don't know if this is 100% true though, but it is what he said.

/Patrik

Dolf · 02-04-2004, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new world

Strangely enough - they list some WWII campaign medals which don't have serial numbers or any other unique characteristics - how do they expect to those medals?

I guess if you have one of the medals in your collection - you're in trouble

Yeah, I wonder how they will find those Campaign Medals!
I guess we are all in trouble ...

Dolf

Dolf · 02-04-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tretov

Jeez, do they not have any better tasks to waste the government money on? Drug smugglers, trafficing, frauds...

A friend who runs a small antique shop in Sweden said a few years ago that russian officials from the embassy used to come to his store and write down serial numbers from orders so that they could trace the owner and find out why he has illegaly sold his award... Don't know if this is 100% true though, but it is what he said.

/Patrik

I agree 100% with you Patrik! Why they don't waste their time and OUR taxes money in something more profitable for us all?!...

But that makes me wonder, are we doing some illegal activity by collecting these Awards or what?!

Dolf

new world · 02-04-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolf

... are we doing some illegal activity by collecting these Awards or what?!

Dolf

It depends how you look at this: according to Russian law sale and export of awards is illegal and you would be punished if caught.

American laws were fine with this last time I checked

William

Dolf · 02-04-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new world

It depends how you look at this: according to Russian law sale and export of awards is illegal and you would be punished if caught.

American laws were fine with this last time I checked

William

William,

But I guess they would have to caught us in Russia, right?
There is nothing they can do to us in Europe or the US, right?

Thanks,

Dolf

new world · 02-04-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolf

William,

But I guess they would have to caught us in Russia, right?
There is nothing they can do to us in Europe or the US, right?

Thanks,

Dolf

Not exactly. If you're talking about high-end awards or belonged to someone famous - they can reach you outside of Russia.

I've heard stories about Interpol confiscating (or at least attempting to) awards that were reported stolen by the families in FSU.

Sad truth is that since sale of awards is prohibited in Russia - families often sell them anyway, but report as stolen just to cover themselves...

William

HuliganRS · 02-04-2004, 01:46 PM

I think they are more interested in Awards stolen from the state museums.
Like that Suvorov 1 that had it's number altered...

Rusty.

09-25-2003, 10:40 AM	#101
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	museums Shawn is correct, museums often steal from themselves in Russia. I have gotten things from museums as they have sold or lessened their collections. Is that stealing? Who knows. There were a huge number of smaller museums that shut down and sold off their items. Larger museums also sold off items to raise funds. They had large reserve collections that could be used to support the rest of the museum. But, yes, there have also been outright stolen items from museums. Its very difficult to find out where items are from; the Russian suppliers do not like to talk about it. As for the other republics, in general they did get ownership of all items unless the items were on specific loan from the Central Red Army Museum. This caused a problem as Central asked for alot of stuff back that they never got. Alot of it was sold off by museums in Kiev and Minsk, etc. rather than return it. DougD

02-04-2004, 10:50 AM	#102
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Soviet awards - wanted by Interpol Some Soviet awards are on the search list put together by Interpol (Ukrainian branch). Take a look at the list - there's a list of serial numbers and detailed descriptions. Here's the link: http://icpo.centrmia.gov.ua/ART/number/number1.htm William

02-04-2004, 01:46 PM	#110
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	I think they are more interested in Awards stolen from the state museums. Like that Suvorov 1 that had it's number altered... Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

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02-04-2004, 10:53 AM	#103
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Strangely enough - they list some WWII campaign medals which don't have serial numbers or any other unique characteristics - how do they expect to those medals? I guess if you have one of the medals in your collection - you're in trouble

02-04-2004, 12:43 PM	#104
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	Jeez, do they not have any better tasks to waste the government money on? Drug smugglers, trafficing, frauds... A friend who runs a small antique shop in Sweden said a few years ago that russian officials from the embassy used to come to his store and write down serial numbers from orders so that they could trace the owner and find out why he has illegaly sold his award... Don't know if this is 100% true though, but it is what he said. /Patrik

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