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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 05-19-2002, 09:53 PM   #41
Art
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Gotta love the prices on those Red Banner #7's
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Old 05-20-2002, 03:00 AM   #42
CZ
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DR. DIETRICH HERFURTH (Berlin)

Folks,

what do you have against the handsome small booklets of Dr. Herfurth? They have the right size, to have them always with you and you can see such wonderful items like a "Red Banner" # 7 & # 8. You find also all of the fantistic (SU-)made awards fo the Mongol People's Republic.

The recent, 3rd, editon is from 1999 and I will give you some price quotations (retail prices at the dealers in the European Union!!!) in USD (just in the moment the EUR sells for about 0,92 USD):


Kutuzov 2c = USD 1.400,-

Suvorov 2c = USD 2.000,-

Red Banner of Labour, 1. type (1928) = USD 3.000,-

Red Banner of Labour, 2. type (1936) = USD 300,-

Friendship = USD 190,-

October Revolution = USD 140,-

Lenin = USD 450,-

HSL = USD 500,-

Glory-Trio (inkl. Cavaliers booklet = USD 3.400,- (33 % + for doc.)


So, what's so wrong with Herfurth's price system?

Comrades, if I look at your dealer-websites, I can not find t h a t significant difference - or am I completly wrong?.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:11 AM   #43
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Christian-

I have nothing against Dr. Herefurth, but his cataloge that came out in the late 80's/early 90's (I've since thrown it away, so I don't have the exact date) had many prices that were just too high for the market. A badge that would run the equivelant of $15-$20 in Belgium, and $30 in the US, would be in his cataloge for $90-$100! It may have very well been that when he wrote his cataloge, the DM was very low against the USD, and then rose considerably, and that's where the skewed prices came from. Regardless, those were the prices that the sellers on the market in Moscow were trying to fetch for their goods at a 1993 DM to USD exchange rate, which was simply far too much.

Hope that clears things up.

--Dave
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:49 AM   #44
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Prices on Ebay

I've noticed recently, over the past few months or so, that there doesn't seem to be as many of the higher awards available on Ebay now, as there once were.

I guess I've noticed this more because I've collected most of the more common awards, so I tend to look out for the ones I don't have. For instance, when was the last HSU medal sold on Ebay? Come to think of it, I never seen a Glory trio sold on Ebay for instance.

I can guess this might be caused by a rising interest in collecting soviet medals/orders in Russia. Is this now becoming very common? For instance, British medals are very popular with many Brits, and they can cost a fair amount. Is the same trend now being seen in Russia, with people becoming increasingly interested in their soviet past?

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.
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Old 05-20-2002, 04:52 AM   #45
Tal Inbar
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Ther is no such thing as selling W A Y up or below catalog prices. If the real world does not follow the prices in a catalog, then the catalog is not reflecting the market and the real value of awards.

It is as simple as that.

( and we still remember the"genuine and original" "No. 8" red banner PICTURED at this catalog )

Tal

Last edited by Tal Inbar; 05-21-2002 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 05-20-2002, 07:32 AM   #46
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I think collecting Soviet paraphenalia is getting more popular in the CIS. I spoke with someone I buy from here and he said to me that he can make more selling in the CIS than selling to me (He said he would even buy stuff from me!). I took this to mean a couple of things--first, that more Soviets are collecting their own medals since I live in the backwaters of the CIS so it is unlikely Westerners are buying these pieces; second, that, even out here, more and more gullible Americans and others are traveling to this part of the world and can be taken advantage of, thus fewer trades and sales go on among locals themselves and with foreigners "in the know" (thus there is less on the market in general making even more common pieces rarer on a daily basis--hey, why sell a medal for $1 if someone will pay $5!!). I think the casual buyer puts too much emphasis on the prices listed in catalogs. Catalogs are guides, not the Holy Grail(s) of knowledge. Look at Heureforth, Vernon, Avers and you get three pretty different price guides. In the end, if you want it or need it for your collection, you are going to pay what you are comfortable with. This comfort zone (or perhaps profitability margin?!) is different for everyone.....
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Old 05-20-2002, 08:31 AM   #47
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Just a quick note on EBAY sales and the lack of higher end Orders for sale there. I have stopped trying to list higher end orders there because you cannot get a normal price for the item. Everyone wants to buy things for nothing. I just tried a HSU Star with COA from McDaniel and research, as well as a Glory 1st Class with COA and research for $1599 each. Not one bid. I do not think either price was outrageous.

Ed
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Old 05-20-2002, 10:35 AM   #48
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Herfurth's prices: o.k. or not o.k?

Dear Dave, dear Tal,

I presented current prices of Herfurth's catalogue (completly revised 3rd edition !) and there is no reaction at all from you: Dave is speaking about the 1st edition and Tal mentioned the faked # 8 "Red Banner" (Dr. Herfurth told to the forum, that he photographed a fake, as he got to know later on).

I think that the dealers in Baku or Budapest are using the latest 1999 (3rd) of the catalogue (all collectors in Europe use of course the latest edition). The balance between EUR and USD didn't move so much, so it seems hardly possible, that a dealer can ask in the year 2000 USD 200,- for a "October Revolution", showing the Herfurth catalogue, if there is written EUR 150,-. It is also written in the booklet, that the prices are for items sold by registered dealers and that the prices at flea or black markets should be definitly lower.

So I ask you again: What's so wrong with Herfurth's catalogue?

Dr. Herfurth was already an expert on Soviet Awards at a time where most of the members of this forum went to kindergarten or primary school. In the communist "German Democratic Republic" he was the expert on military awards of the "Big Brother". He published a lot of scientific articles and a well known book about military awards from the SU (all in german language).

Please stick to the facts and have a look into Herfurth's catalogue.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 05-20-2002, 02:29 PM   #49
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Dear Guys

I think its a very good thing that the Russians are buying their own medals at good prices. This is a very important factor for collecting. In South Africa our currency continues to fall every year and recently we had a 35% devaluation. UK delaers can walk in and buy all the stuff on offer at prices that we South Africans cannot afford. I think the same happend in Russia. It took the South African collectors about 5 years to wake up and start competeing properly for our stuff and now dealers know they can get good prices locally and the stuff is not exported.

How would you like it if foreigners are buying up all the medals around you becuase their currency is strong. Worst of all the poor Russian guy knows what treasures the foreigner is getting. The foreigner in many cases has no idea what he is buying (the members of this forum excluded) I am sorry but I must take the side of the Russian collectors becuase I have had this happen to me.

And remember a rise in prices is good for all of us. It keeps value in our collections.

Hope I have not upset anyone but I know what its like to be on the other side.

regards

Munroe
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Old 05-20-2002, 05:35 PM   #50
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Excellent, Munroe

and Dr. Herfurth's catalogue is a great help for the poor devils not get cheated by some collectors with dollars in their pockets.

As we have read, even in Baku the guys are running around with this booklet. So I hope, that it wouldn't be so easy now and in the future to get a complete group with all documents with "Glory" 3cl + 2cl, "Red Star", GPW 1cl and all the medals and badges from this 85-years-old veteran, who needs money for medicine, for just USD 30,-, 5 bars of chocolate, 10 condomes and one bad copy of a porno-video. The information is spreading, that in Europe, at the dealer's shop, for example a "Glory-Trio" with booklet will cost about USD 3.400,- according to the price quoted in Dr. Herfurth's catalogue. Nobody will sell such a set anymore for USD 400,- in Baku, Budapest, Riga or Leningrad.

Due to the fact, that nobody posted any comment about the prices quoted in Dr. Herfurth's catlogue, we can assume, that the prices there are somehow accepted by this forum.

What about: "Ahhhhh, the dreaded Herefurth catalog....." - still want to rob the old heros and veterans in the former SU?

Regards from Vienna

P.S.: Let's be cautious, that the ghosts of the dead veterans will not take the awards away from our collections - who knows?
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