Any Info on 2 swords I have

[rboomsma]

Hello

Looking for any info on these two swords I have.

First I have this cossacks style sword stamped "zik" 1944 and numbered b459.

I was told it was made in Chelabinsk machine factory.
Just wondering what type of soldier would wear this, and was it really used in the war? Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ron

[rboomsma]

Also I have this sword year ???? It has the number 17512 in Persian engraved into the sword.


I am told it was a Russian sword under contract in Persia, for Persian troops that rode with Russians during the days before Persia became Iran.

Can anyone tell about this sword. I have seen many for sale on Ebay.

Thanks

[Dave]

Originally posted by rboomsma
Just wondering what type of soldier would wear this, and was it really used in the war?

I can't help you with the sword itself, but they were used during the War. One Order of Glory 3rd Class in my collection belonged to a certain Junior Sergeant Mikhail Petrovich Smadik of the 22nd Guards Cavalry Regiment, 5th Guards Cavalry Division.

On May 1st 1945, outside of Berlin, he earned his Glory 3rd Class "…while attacking the front line of the enemy’s defense, in the ranks of a mounted platoon, Comrade Smadik demonstrated courage and bravery. During an attack in the area of the village Tsulen, he chased after the retreating enemy and with his sword killed four soldiers, and took two German officers prisoner…"

He was 19 years old, and had been in the War since Spring 1944. From that point to May 1945, he had killed fifty-six German soldiers and officers single handedly (most undoubtedly many with his sword).

--Dave

[Mark Signa]

I have similar shashka officer variant with CCCP logo - 1941 issue. What ZIK stands for ? Zavod Imeni Kuibisheva ? Or it is different logo for Zlatoust fabrika ?

[rboomsma]

Hello Mark

I wish I could help you, but I know nothing. Hopefully someone can fill us in a little.

Originally Posted by Mark Signa

I have similar shashka officer variant with CCCP logo - 1941 issue. What ZIK stands for ? Zavod Imeni Kuibisheva ? Or it is different logo for Zlatoust fabrika ?

[vvadim]

First one in your picture is cavalry shashka model 1927. This was single model for all Red Army military personal who was entitled to wear the saber (primarily cavalry and horse drown artillery, but not only them). Here are variations of this saber and to the left is dragoon’s saber model 1881/1909 that was manufactured by soviet’s up until 1928 when production was completely switched to model 1927, but it was in use in WWII .
http://rkka.ru/uniform/files/kaz09.htm
In the center two version of 1927 model for commanding personal and for NCO and privates. The only difference is bayonet holders on the scabbard. To the left simplified war time version that was in production since 1942.

[vvadim]

Despite the fact that in 1940 some new side arms were adopted by Red Army (General’s shashka model 1940 and shashka for commanding personal model 1940) the model 1927 was still most common side arm throughout WWII and up until 1955 when it was removed from the service.

[vvadim]

Yours is late war simplified version (since is has no bulging images of hammer and sickle, five pointed star and abbreviation CCCP on the pommel) for commanding personal (since is has no bayonet sockets) made by ZIK (Zlatoustskiy Instrumentalniy Kombinat). Since 1940 it was marking his produtcts with laters ZIK, before that with word Zlatoust in circle with hammer and sickle.

[vvadim]

From what I can see yours was assembled from several different sabers. Number on the scabbard and number on the pommel should be the same. Some brass parts during the wartime production were replaced with metal parts, but on yours brass parts still present on the scabbard and few other things.

[vvadim]

In late fifties when these sabers were put for long time storage they were repaired by the factory. Of course there are some people who are trying to do it themselves now, but yours looks like was made by the factory.
We’ve put on the web chapter from manual of how to fix sabers model 1927 in the army repair shop. If you understand russian, you can take a look.

http://kv.rsm.org.ru/book/temp/index.htm

The second one on your pictures is a replica of dragoon’s saber model 1881/1909 made in Iran in mid 1990. Initially they were available in US for as low as $30. For some reason all of them have very strange fantasy scabbard made from white metal. From what I can see your’s scabbard was painted black later on by some people in US.

To the right is how end of your's scabard should looks like.