What medal for Kursk ?

Will · 03-24-2011, 10:27 AM

Let's suppose a young Soviet tank crewman took part in his first engagement at Kursk, the largest armored battle in history. Let's further suppose that he was seriously wounded and never returned to action.

Aside from the Victory medal, does anyone know what his actions at Kursk would have earned him?
One of the "Defense of..." medals?
Thanks!

***desantnik*** · 03-24-2011, 11:05 AM

There were no campaign medals for Kursk. If he was seriously wounded, he may have received a wound from his local military commissariat years after the war.

Will · 03-24-2011, 12:40 PM

Thanks, Desantnik.
I knew that there was no specific medal for Kursk but, given the importance of the battle, I thought that perhaps participation in the battle would have qualified a soldier for one of the "Defense" medals.

***desantnik*** · 03-24-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will

Thanks, Desantnik.
I knew that there was no specific medal for Kursk but, given the importance of the battle, I thought that perhaps participation in the battle would have qualified a soldier for one of the "Defense" medals.

OK, which one?

Will · 03-24-2011, 01:29 PM

Well, that's it exactly.
Kursk is not in the Caucuses; it's too far from Stalingrad; so there really is no medal that would "fit."

But I thought that, given the importance of the battle, there might have been a Soviet decree that anyone who fought at Kursk was entitled to something to show they had taken part in that battle. Perhaps the Stalingrad medal, since it was in some sense a part of that campaign.

I know that doesn't make sense, but it also did not make sense for the Soviet Union to award Red Banners with "2" and "3" and "4" on them, since you were wearing the medals. Why number them if you're going to be wearing all of them anyway?

So, again, I just thought that someone might have been aware of something that was done to make a medal applicable to Kursk.

Seems a shame that there was no independent recognition for that battle.

EricFG · 03-24-2011, 06:23 PM

He would have gotten a nifty printed 'gratitude' citation I expect. Those are nice, if not dangly.
And wasn't Kursk an "offensive" manuveur initiated by the Red Army? Not quite sure.

But also, wouldn't it have been possible for him to receive a BM or CSM well after the war for a serious wound? Or am I just dreaming that....

Eryk · 03-24-2011, 06:55 PM

I imagine a "gratitude" for Kursk (5 July to 17 July, 1943), especially to someone in one of the Tank Armies, would be sought after indeed.

"Kursk" dates above are the start of the German offensive to when the last of their forces withdrew to roughly their start lines. The Soviets were defending during that time, though most of that time they also mounted aggressive counter-attacks. Soviet offensive actions actually overlap a bit, and those offensives became steam rollers latter in July and on into Autumn.

EricFG · 03-24-2011, 07:16 PM

Ah, 'Zitadelle'. Classic GPW tank battle.

So as not to glorify this sort of stuff to much; over 1 million military casualities for the whole Kursk affair(if wikipedia ain't lying to me tonight.) Lord knows how many civilians lost their lives hidding from the stray (or not so stray) shells and bullets.

***CtahhR*** · 03-24-2011, 07:55 PM

There is a modern unofficial medal "60 Years Of The Battle Of Kursk" which I'm sure surviving participants will have been "awarded" (Not sure which organisation put it out). Kursk Oblast has officially instituted some of its own medals but I do not yet know of any for participation in efforts during the GPW. The "Kursk Regional Public Organisation Of Reserve Border Troops" also awards its own medals but once again not for the battle of Kursk (as far as I know).

Eryk · 03-24-2011, 08:40 PM

Doc Riley was good enough to put a pic of the 'medal' here. Pretty stark.

By the time of the battle there weren't many civilians left in the area. The Soviets moved them away when constructing the defenses.

03-24-2011, 10:27 AM	#1
Will Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 236	What medal for Kursk ? Let's suppose a young Soviet tank crewman took part in his first engagement at Kursk, the largest armored battle in history. Let's further suppose that he was seriously wounded and never returned to action. Aside from the Victory medal, does anyone know what his actions at Kursk would have earned him? One of the "Defense of..." medals? Thanks!

03-24-2011, 11:05 AM	#2
*desantnik* Forum Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eurasia Posts: 2,338	Re: What medal for Kursk ? There were no campaign medals for Kursk. If he was seriously wounded, he may have received a wound from his local military commissariat years after the war.

03-24-2011, 12:40 PM	#3
Will Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 236	Re: What medal for Kursk ? Thanks, Desantnik. I knew that there was no specific medal for Kursk but, given the importance of the battle, I thought that perhaps participation in the battle would have qualified a soldier for one of the "Defense" medals.

03-24-2011, 01:29 PM	#5
Will Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 236	Re: What medal for Kursk ? Well, that's it exactly. Kursk is not in the Caucuses; it's too far from Stalingrad; so there really is no medal that would "fit." But I thought that, given the importance of the battle, there might have been a Soviet decree that anyone who fought at Kursk was entitled to something to show they had taken part in that battle. Perhaps the Stalingrad medal, since it was in some sense a part of that campaign. I know that doesn't make sense, but it also did not make sense for the Soviet Union to award Red Banners with "2" and "3" and "4" on them, since you were wearing the medals. Why number them if you're going to be wearing all of them anyway? So, again, I just thought that someone might have been aware of something that was done to make a medal applicable to Kursk. Seems a shame that there was no independent recognition for that battle. Last edited by Will; 03-24-2011 at 02:44 PM.

03-24-2011, 06:23 PM	#6
EricFG Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Naples, Florida, USA Age: 59 Posts: 1,496	Re: What medal for Kursk ? He would have gotten a nifty printed 'gratitude' citation I expect. Those are nice, if not dangly. And wasn't Kursk an "offensive" manuveur initiated by the Red Army? Not quite sure. But also, wouldn't it have been possible for him to receive a BM or CSM well after the war for a serious wound? Or am I just dreaming that.... __________________ "patina imparts character" - PJS A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'

03-24-2011, 06:55 PM	#7
Eryk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portland, USA Posts: 234	Re: What medal for Kursk ? I imagine a "gratitude" for Kursk (5 July to 17 July, 1943), especially to someone in one of the Tank Armies, would be sought after indeed. "Kursk" dates above are the start of the German offensive to when the last of their forces withdrew to roughly their start lines. The Soviets were defending during that time, though most of that time they also mounted aggressive counter-attacks. Soviet offensive actions actually overlap a bit, and those offensives became steam rollers latter in July and on into Autumn. __________________ Steiner: "Why do you want it so badly? It's just a worthless piece of metal. Look."

03-24-2011, 07:16 PM	#8
EricFG Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Naples, Florida, USA Age: 59 Posts: 1,496	Re: What medal for Kursk ? Ah, 'Zitadelle'. Classic GPW tank battle. So as not to glorify this sort of stuff to much; over 1 million military casualities for the whole Kursk affair(if wikipedia ain't lying to me tonight.) Lord knows how many civilians lost their lives hidding from the stray (or not so stray) shells and bullets. __________________ "patina imparts character" - PJS A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'

03-24-2011, 07:55 PM	#9
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: What medal for Kursk ? There is a modern unofficial medal "60 Years Of The Battle Of Kursk" which I'm sure surviving participants will have been "awarded" (Not sure which organisation put it out). Kursk Oblast has officially instituted some of its own medals but I do not yet know of any for participation in efforts during the GPW. The "Kursk Regional Public Organisation Of Reserve Border Troops" also awards its own medals but once again not for the battle of Kursk (as far as I know).

03-24-2011, 08:40 PM	#10
Eryk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portland, USA Posts: 234	Re: What medal for Kursk ? Doc Riley was good enough to put a pic of the 'medal' here. Pretty stark. By the time of the battle there weren't many civilians left in the area. The Soviets moved them away when constructing the defenses. __________________ Steiner: "Why do you want it so badly? It's just a worthless piece of metal. Look."

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