Visor Caps: Large or Small Crowns?

Tretov · 10-07-2003, 08:12 AM

Here are two photos that might be interesting, taken at
a) the opening of the new border crossing in Salla,
and b) opening of new border crossing station in Svetogorsk.

Compare the size of the finnish customs visor caps, and the russians... :D note also, that is is very unusual to see finnish customs officials dressed up with visor cap!

/Patrik

Tretov · 10-07-2003, 08:13 AM

And the Svetogorsk ceremony...

charlet · 10-07-2003, 01:17 PM

in France we call that Mexican army hats!!!

this style is typical of the 90' fabrication...personnaly I avoid systematically all soviet stuf with this style!

Tretov · 10-07-2003, 04:06 PM

Note the difference between how finns and russian wear their caps! The russians have it 1-1.5 inch above their ears, "on the of the head", while the finns have it pulled down just to their ears... The way that man to the right in gray-ish jacket (the fourth man holding a border plaque) wears his (extremely high crowned) hat make it look like it is 1 or 2 sizes too small.

/Patrik

skipper1939 · 10-14-2003, 08:20 PM

The Soviet visor hats began to grow steadily under marshal Malinovsky as minister of defense. Soviet soldiers joked that it was because Malinovksy was short but stubby and felt that the bigger hats added to his stature.

The Russian Federation had a chance to return to more reasonable designs but blew it. The new hats, thhough not as tall, are a real fashion statement - and that statement is YUK!

I wonder what you all think of the new Russian awards and decorations? Better than the hats or uniforms (feldgrau?!) I think.

new world · 10-14-2003, 11:17 PM

I think new Russian Federation awards are terrible!!!!

Designs lack good taste and not only new awards looks chep, but most are made of non-precious metal.

I thinnk new Russian awards don't even come close to Soviet or Imperial awards. Such a shame that great traditions of fine awards making are lost in modern Russia.

William

vikingraider1 · 10-15-2003, 02:56 AM

Personally I think that the Soviet Caps with large crowns are great. They are uniquely Soviet and very disticntive. I think the old hats from the 40s, 50s, and 1960s are OK but the large crowned hats make them unmistakbly Soviet/Russin.

__________________
"We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war."

King George V, Flanders, 1922

kabanchik · 10-16-2003, 11:34 PM

I must respectfully disagree. Does anyone remember the old Warner Brothers Daffy Duck cartoons that came out during the war, the ones lampooning the nazis and the Prussian stereotyped characters? Well, every time I see one of these enormous monstrosities on the head of some late-soviet, or Russian Federation serviceman or official, I think of those cartoons, and only of how UTTERLY RIDICULOUS those damned things look. My wife, who is from Moscow, and whose father, grandfather, and great-grandfather were all distinguished Soviet officers, says that soldiers used a derisive term for these caps, "aerodrome", since they were big enough to land a MiG on!! Who can NOT look at a 50's or 60's general's parade cap, and not sigh with admiration and satisfaction from the inherant beauty they exude?? Put it next to a late 1980's wave green general's cap, and you will see what I mean!!

otlichnik · 10-17-2003, 02:24 AM

I will probably open myself to a massive flame war but I agree with viking raider for two reasons.

1) Vive la difference. The wacky big hats, which kabanchik so correctly calls ridiculous, are part of the 1990s feel for Russia in my mind. Odd but true.

2) Sadly, those ridiculous hats fit the Russian (and late Soviet) military perfectly - a ridiculous shadow of itself. No slur intended on the few good officers there even towards the end. The great Red Army of the 40s-50s and especially the brave vets of WWII had respectable hats. The later you get the more it is all about shine and not substance. Those ridiculous hats sadly fit the highly corrupt, inefficient, rusting and generally uncaring Soviet/Russian army of the 1980-90s.

I bet you could seperate the good from bad officers based on which hat they would choose if given the choice between 50s-60s style (the good ones) and 80s-90s style (the bad bunch).

Shawn

skipper1939 · 10-17-2003, 06:24 AM

I appreciate Shawn's view. They certainly are collectable and I have more than a few. But Soviet officers that I spoke with in the 70s and 80s also joked that if you stood in a strong wind you could go airborne if you were not careful. I think it was a source of moderate embarrassment to them.

I have a good friend who was a naval architect (one of the designers of the K-19) and he said that he continued to wear his father's visor hats (a squadron leader in the Baltic fleet during the war) throughout his career. He held Malinovsky responsible for pushing those airfoils on to otherwise classy uniforms.

Once in a while the armed forces of almost every country get a top dog who thinks he is a fashion expert (e.g. General McPeak whose handiwork was quickly dropped after he retired).

Now, if you want to see some really silly visor hats, look at the Indonesian or Thai examples!

Dr. Bob

View Poll Results: Large crowned peak caps or small?
Large Sized Crowns	3	20.00%
Small Sized Crowns	12	80.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

10-07-2003, 01:17 PM	#3
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	in France we call that Mexican army hats!!! this style is typical of the 90' fabrication...personnaly I avoid systematically all soviet stuf with this style! __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

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10-07-2003, 04:06 PM	#4
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	Note the difference between how finns and russian wear their caps! The russians have it 1-1.5 inch above their ears, "on the of the head", while the finns have it pulled down just to their ears... The way that man to the right in gray-ish jacket (the fourth man holding a border plaque) wears his (extremely high crowned) hat make it look like it is 1 or 2 sizes too small. /Patrik

10-14-2003, 08:20 PM	#5
skipper1939 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent, Ohio - USA Age: 84 Posts: 61	The Soviet visor hats began to grow steadily under marshal Malinovsky as minister of defense. Soviet soldiers joked that it was because Malinovksy was short but stubby and felt that the bigger hats added to his stature. The Russian Federation had a chance to return to more reasonable designs but blew it. The new hats, thhough not as tall, are a real fashion statement - and that statement is YUK! I wonder what you all think of the new Russian awards and decorations? Better than the hats or uniforms (feldgrau?!) I think.

10-14-2003, 11:17 PM	#6
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	I think new Russian Federation awards are terrible!!!! Designs lack good taste and not only new awards looks chep, but most are made of non-precious metal. I thinnk new Russian awards don't even come close to Soviet or Imperial awards. Such a shame that great traditions of fine awards making are lost in modern Russia. William

10-15-2003, 02:56 AM	#7
vikingraider1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: London, Home of West Ham United Age: 54 Posts: 328	Personally I think that the Soviet Caps with large crowns are great. They are uniquely Soviet and very disticntive. I think the old hats from the 40s, 50s, and 1960s are OK but the large crowned hats make them unmistakbly Soviet/Russin. __________________ "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922

10-16-2003, 11:34 PM	#8
kabanchik Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA USA Age: 71 Posts: 80	I must respectfully disagree. Does anyone remember the old Warner Brothers Daffy Duck cartoons that came out during the war, the ones lampooning the nazis and the Prussian stereotyped characters? Well, every time I see one of these enormous monstrosities on the head of some late-soviet, or Russian Federation serviceman or official, I think of those cartoons, and only of how UTTERLY RIDICULOUS those damned things look. My wife, who is from Moscow, and whose father, grandfather, and great-grandfather were all distinguished Soviet officers, says that soldiers used a derisive term for these caps, "aerodrome", since they were big enough to land a MiG on!! Who can NOT look at a 50's or 60's general's parade cap, and not sigh with admiration and satisfaction from the inherant beauty they exude?? Put it next to a late 1980's wave green general's cap, and you will see what I mean!!

10-17-2003, 02:24 AM	#9
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	I will probably open myself to a massive flame war but I agree with viking raider for two reasons. 1) Vive la difference. The wacky big hats, which kabanchik so correctly calls ridiculous, are part of the 1990s feel for Russia in my mind. Odd but true. 2) Sadly, those ridiculous hats fit the Russian (and late Soviet) military perfectly - a ridiculous shadow of itself. No slur intended on the few good officers there even towards the end. The great Red Army of the 40s-50s and especially the brave vets of WWII had respectable hats. The later you get the more it is all about shine and not substance. Those ridiculous hats sadly fit the highly corrupt, inefficient, rusting and generally uncaring Soviet/Russian army of the 1980-90s. I bet you could seperate the good from bad officers based on which hat they would choose if given the choice between 50s-60s style (the good ones) and 80s-90s style (the bad bunch). Shawn

10-17-2003, 06:24 AM	#10
skipper1939 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent, Ohio - USA Age: 84 Posts: 61	I appreciate Shawn's view. They certainly are collectable and I have more than a few. But Soviet officers that I spoke with in the 70s and 80s also joked that if you stood in a strong wind you could go airborne if you were not careful. I think it was a source of moderate embarrassment to them. I have a good friend who was a naval architect (one of the designers of the K-19) and he said that he continued to wear his father's visor hats (a squadron leader in the Baltic fleet during the war) throughout his career. He held Malinovsky responsible for pushing those airfoils on to otherwise classy uniforms. Once in a while the armed forces of almost every country get a top dog who thinks he is a fashion expert (e.g. General McPeak whose handiwork was quickly dropped after he retired). Now, if you want to see some really silly visor hats, look at the Indonesian or Thai examples! Dr. Bob

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