Gimnastiorka

Al-muell · 10-24-2003, 06:01 AM

I have bought this (gimnastiorka+breeches) just today and I am not sure what to think of this (apart from the fact that OSA badge and ribbon bar are not original to it).
Any opinions?

that long "patch" makes me think of cavalry, but probably it has nothing to do with that. Colour is just a little darker than Gimnastiorka.
btw. pocket buttons and the bottom one of gimnastiorka are replacements - one from 60, other ones from 80's

DougD · 10-24-2003, 07:52 AM

It looks to me to be real, but a postwar make-up from the 1950's or later. Good for re-enacting, but not wartime in my opinion.

DougD

vikingraider1 · 10-24-2003, 12:50 PM

yeah the ribbon bar is for a high ranking officer rather than a senior sergeant as this tunic is for.
the patches on the knees of the breeches are quite common...in fact all the gyms that I have that came with breeches sport these patches on the knees.
Not a bad post war tunic though...I would take the ribbon bar off it, get a Pilotka and you have a nice combination there.

Al-muell · 10-24-2003, 03:10 PM

Thanks
Good enough it is from 50's. I have had only gimnastiorki from 60's till now. Of course I will remove the ribbons (they aren't even attached in a proper way!). Should there be medals or ribbons on it?
And about these patches - similar are on the sleeves of gimnastiorka (the ones from 60's do not have them).
And if talking about pilotkas - Does those from 50's look much different than the ones from later (70-80's period)?

vikingraider1 · 10-24-2003, 05:16 PM

Well, there should be no medals or medal ribbons on there at all. At this time, consctipts had parade uniforms which would be used to show off medals etc. The Gymnastoirka was used as a service uniform by conscripts and even by some officers but I would just put a 50s Komsomol badge on the left breast and if you are really daring (and can find one from the 1950s) an extended service badge would be ok.
The pilotkas from the 50s differed as they were changed in 1956. prior to '56 they were a dark shade of olive and had a high wool content. After '56 they tended to be a shade similar to Khaki. The reality was that stocks of the old type would still be worn up until the early 1960s.
A belt would also be worn with this uniform and if you can find it a set of webbing would really set it off. These are not to hard to come by and appear on Ebay from time to time.

skipper1939 · 10-25-2003, 10:09 PM

Can anyone give me an explanation as to why Red Army soldiers wore those medals on their battle dress?

In the Tsarist army the award of a St. George cross, for instance, exempted the soldier from being beaten by officers. That was a really good reason to always have it out there visible to all (especially officers).

Was there some similar incentive to have those wartime medals visible? Or did it just become part of wartime military style?

Dr. Bob

vikingraider1 · 10-25-2003, 11:27 PM

One possible explanation was to copy the German who always wore their awards on their uniforms, even in battle.
I think it also gave a morale boost when one was allowed to wear their medals into battle, and may have inspired others onto greater deeds.
This is of course speculation, as during peacetime after the war, medals were only worn on parade uniforms, ribbons on service uniforms and on occasions on the field uniform by officers.

otlichnik · 10-27-2003, 03:09 AM

Unfortuntaely, I think the gym may be 1960s. The buttons look like very late issue. Look on the back for dates...

The boards are M1958 service/parade, they are all one colour and not edged in a different colour like the 1943-58 boards.

As for why RKKA soldiers wore their awards on battle dress during the war - because that is all they had. No front line soldier had a parade uniform till after the war. Service and field dress differ only in one thing for practicle war-time pruposes - board colour. Most soldiers only had one tunic at any given time. Soldiers kept any award issued to them with them - where else do you store it??

Shawn

Al-muell · 10-27-2003, 05:53 AM

Well, only pocket buttons and the bottom buttons are dated (they seem to be replacements). Others have no date on the back. I will check the ones on the shoulderboards as they look different as well.

10-24-2003, 07:52 AM	#2
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	1950's It looks to me to be real, but a postwar make-up from the 1950's or later. Good for re-enacting, but not wartime in my opinion. DougD

10-24-2003, 12:50 PM	#3
vikingraider1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: London, Home of West Ham United Age: 54 Posts: 328	yeah the ribbon bar is for a high ranking officer rather than a senior sergeant as this tunic is for. the patches on the knees of the breeches are quite common...in fact all the gyms that I have that came with breeches sport these patches on the knees. Not a bad post war tunic though...I would take the ribbon bar off it, get a Pilotka and you have a nice combination there. __________________ "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922

10-24-2003, 05:16 PM	#5
vikingraider1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: London, Home of West Ham United Age: 54 Posts: 328	Well, there should be no medals or medal ribbons on there at all. At this time, consctipts had parade uniforms which would be used to show off medals etc. The Gymnastoirka was used as a service uniform by conscripts and even by some officers but I would just put a 50s Komsomol badge on the left breast and if you are really daring (and can find one from the 1950s) an extended service badge would be ok. The pilotkas from the 50s differed as they were changed in 1956. prior to '56 they were a dark shade of olive and had a high wool content. After '56 they tended to be a shade similar to Khaki. The reality was that stocks of the old type would still be worn up until the early 1960s. A belt would also be worn with this uniform and if you can find it a set of webbing would really set it off. These are not to hard to come by and appear on Ebay from time to time. __________________ "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922

10-25-2003, 10:09 PM	#6
skipper1939 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent, Ohio - USA Age: 84 Posts: 61	Wartime wearing of medals Can anyone give me an explanation as to why Red Army soldiers wore those medals on their battle dress? In the Tsarist army the award of a St. George cross, for instance, exempted the soldier from being beaten by officers. That was a really good reason to always have it out there visible to all (especially officers). Was there some similar incentive to have those wartime medals visible? Or did it just become part of wartime military style? Dr. Bob

10-25-2003, 11:27 PM	#7
vikingraider1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: London, Home of West Ham United Age: 54 Posts: 328	One possible explanation was to copy the German who always wore their awards on their uniforms, even in battle. I think it also gave a morale boost when one was allowed to wear their medals into battle, and may have inspired others onto greater deeds. This is of course speculation, as during peacetime after the war, medals were only worn on parade uniforms, ribbons on service uniforms and on occasions on the field uniform by officers. __________________ "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922

10-24-2003, 03:10 PM	#4
Al-muell Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wrocław, Poland Posts: 1,828	Thanks Good enough it is from 50's. I have had only gimnastiorki from 60's till now. Of course I will remove the ribbons (they aren't even attached in a proper way!). Should there be medals or ribbons on it? And about these patches - similar are on the sleeves of gimnastiorka (the ones from 60's do not have them). And if talking about pilotkas - Does those from 50's look much different than the ones from later (70-80's period)?

10-27-2003, 03:09 AM	#8
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Unfortuntaely, I think the gym may be 1960s. The buttons look like very late issue. Look on the back for dates... The boards are M1958 service/parade, they are all one colour and not edged in a different colour like the 1943-58 boards. As for why RKKA soldiers wore their awards on battle dress during the war - because that is all they had. No front line soldier had a parade uniform till after the war. Service and field dress differ only in one thing for practicle war-time pruposes - board colour. Most soldiers only had one tunic at any given time. Soldiers kept any award issued to them with them - where else do you store it?? Shawn

10-27-2003, 05:53 AM	#9
Al-muell Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wrocław, Poland Posts: 1,828	Well, only pocket buttons and the bottom buttons are dated (they seem to be replacements). Others have no date on the back. I will check the ones on the shoulderboards as they look different as well.

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