Captured Soviet Banners

[vikingraider1]

If they are reenactors they are actually depicting Waffen SS troops, although their unit is not apparent. I too would suggest that this is not an original photograph. The quality of the photo is too good and as mentioned above they do look well fed. I do have images of Waffen SS troops from the Leibstandate Adolf Hitler and Das Reich Divisions with caputed Soviet banners and will post them up as soon as I scan them. The Waffen SS is a bit of speciality of mine

This is what a real Waffen SS unit should look like when they capture a Soviet banner....
Can anybody identify the banner...?

[DougD]

Its a general party flag, probably not a unit standard in this photo. Its a standard 1936-1940 B side; without seeing the A side is impossible to ID.

Great photo from a new Schiffer book about German War booty shows this shot of German Troops with captured M1940 Soviet unit flags.

I can't quite figure out the flag on the far left; artillery award flag?

the other two are regimental; middle looks like 99th rifle regt.?

Great shot!

DougD

[otlichnik]

The middle is 99th independent something. Rifle Brigade??

The left is very odd, eh? It says atillery at the bottom and some sort of detachment (?) at the top. Perhaps it is the "banner" of some sort of integral artillery unit which would not have officially had its own M1940 banner. Say an artillery battalion of a rifle division?

Shawn

[DougD]

Its interesting to see the frillis off both right side and middel M1940 flags; I have seen alot in the museums like this.

The artillery flag could be for for a unit attached to a larger unit, but also could be a competition flag, which is my guess. Award flags were often flown along with the regimental flags

DD

[otlichnik]

Doug,

Now that I examine the right hand one closely it ends in "artillery regiment". So you must be right. I bet the left one is a compettition banner for the right hand unit.

Shawn

[Tal Inbar]

What was the punishment for loosing the unit's banners? 9 grams of lead?

Tal

[yolkin]

Originally Posted by Tal Inbar

What was the punishment for loosing the unit's banners? 9 grams of lead?

Tal

Tal I remember reading somewhere that if a regimental flag was lost during a military action, the direct commanding officer would never be given a command again. I am sure that the "9 grams of lead" was a common solution for such a misfortune.

On the flipside of this, if a regimental flag was saved, the persom who carried it out was awarded the Order of Red Banner. I know this fom my grandfather's stories of when his Artillery Unit was retreating, there was someone who wrapped the flag around their body underneath their uniform and carried the flag to safety. Subsequentlythat person received the ORB.

Eric

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by otlichnik

Doug,

Now that I examine the right hand one closely it ends in "artillery regiment". So you must be right. I bet the left one is a compettition banner for the right hand unit.

Shawn

I agree with this assessment of the competition banner. The top of the banner probably reads "za otlichnuyu boevuyu podgotovku" (For Excellent Combat/Military Training). I say this because "boevuyu" is clearly feminine and, the next word's first letter looks like a Cyrillic "p" for "podgotovku".

[jefflgarrison]

Living in the land of the only country to have defeated the Soviet's in a land war, I was doing some research on the subject and came across the photo below.

I am wondering if anyone knows what happened to these captured flags from the "Miracle on the Vistula".

[Al-muell]

I can only guess.
Most likely they were taken to the army museum in Warsaw. Even more likely, they were lost during the WW2 - either given back to Soviets by Nazis or lost during city's destruction after the upprising. Also could be returned to the SU after the war.
If not, I would look for them either in Warsaw or in London.
I am not sure, but i think there was something about this banners in Norman Davies's work.