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Go Back   The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum > Soviet Awards Forums > Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics > Soviet Orders

Soviet Orders Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of authentic Soviet Orders (Ордена СССР) is here.

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Old 03-14-2002, 06:51 PM   #1
Tal Inbar
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Victory.

I have found 2 prototypes for the order of victory.
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Old 03-14-2002, 08:19 PM   #2
Art
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Tal,

What's your source for these?
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Old 03-15-2002, 07:14 AM   #3
Eugene
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"Awards of Patriotic War" by Durov.
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Old 09-17-2003, 04:38 PM   #4
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Last week, visiting the Imperial War Museum in London, I have taken the opportunity to see the only Order of Victory located in western Europe, the Marshal Montgomery's one.
It is part of the IWM permanent exhibition dedicated to him : "Monty".

No need to say that - if I have already seen several ribbons of the Order of Victory on uniforms : Zhukov, Konev, Brezhnev

It is the first time I have seen a real Order of Victory !!! Great day !!
I can't describe it, as it is in such a case that you regret lacking vocabulary in a language that is not your native one... and I'll don't do it in french...

So, even if the location of the Order is not at all ideal to take pictures, I tried it and made an interesting "discovery". Here are they (sorry for the quality due to circumstances) :

The Monty's awards showcase. His Order of Victory is on the left, just above his Suvorov 1st Class.

Monty's order of Victory and Suvorov 1st Class.

One more time, sorry for the quality of the pic.

Slightly different angle.

And here, on this pic, you can see that Monty's Order of Victory is a pin-back version and not a screwback one.
That's an interesting point, as we know that - except Brezhnev's one - all Orders of Victory are supposed to be

screwback versions. (see PMD page 49).
What is interesting to know is :
* Is Monty's Order initially a screwback version modified ? Or has it been made initially as a pin-back ?
* If modification, where has it been made ? In USSR or in England ?
* Is the screwback system coexisting with the needle in the back ?

I have asked all these questions (and possibly a pic of the back) to the IWM's Curator, Medals. I'll keep you

informed...

As anyone any clue on these points ?

Close-up.

The Order of Victory's ribbon is in the 7th rank.

Montgomery + Stalin.

Montgomery's miniature bar, including the Suvorov 1st Class.

"Small' Suvorov as part of his bar;

Sorry for the quality of the pic, but it is interesting to see how he mounted this screwback award on a bar.

Ch.
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File Type: jpg crv0007.jpg (49.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg crv0008.jpg (23.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg crv0009.jpg (20.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg crv0011.jpg (15.1 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg crv0015.jpg (21.1 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg crv020.jpg (13.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg crv0022.jpg (29.6 KB, 4 views)
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Old 09-17-2003, 06:47 PM   #5
HuliganRS
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Thanks for thinking of us and taking those pictures!!!!

It appears that the Suvorov1 is also a pin-back, so I would conclude that both were modified after the award ceremony.

I've seen several Russian soldiers modify Screwback to pinback.
Infect one of my friends has an Afghani Red Star that was converted.

Thanks again,

Rusty.
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Old 09-17-2003, 08:49 PM   #6
new world
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Quote:
Originally posted by Christophe
Montgomery's miniature bar, including the Suvorov 1st Class.
WOW!

It's the first time I see miniature of Suvorov order!

Such miniatures were made by jewelers and I am sure Suvorov 1st class miniature is certainly custom made. It looks like there's some sort of a loop on the back of small Suvorov to hang it on the ribbon.

William
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Old 09-18-2003, 01:06 AM   #7
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Rusty,

Your guess about the "modification after the award ceremony" is fully consistent with mine.
I hope the curator of the IWM will help us on this point. I'll let you know.

Ch.

William,

Loop ?
Difficult to see with precision from the pic, and not easy either in real because of the way and place where the bar is displayed.

But I agree, it looks like there's a loop on the back of small Suvorov to hang it on the ribbon.

May be the Curator will be able to help on this case too.

Ch.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:05 AM   #8
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They even managed to find correct small ribbon for Suvorov...

It's interesting to see that mimiature Suvorov's placed somwhere between Polish Virtuti Military and French Legion of Honor.

William
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:33 PM   #9
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You probably remember that, when I visited the Imperial War Museum last September and made this report, I have asked several questions about Marshal Montgomery's Order of Victory (and possibly a pic of its back) to Mrs Diana Condell, the IWM's Curator, Medals :

* Is Monty's Order initially a screwback version modified ? Or has it been made initally as a pin-back ?
* If modification, where has it been made ? In USSR or in England ?
* Is the screwback system coexisting with the needle in the back ?

I committed to keep all of you informed of her answer.

I have received today an answer from Mrs. Diana Condell, and I take the opportunity here to warmly thank her for the help.

Her answer is the following :

"(...) Thank you for your further e-mail on the subject of Field Marshal Montgomery's Order of Victory.

I have now had an opportunity to check the files on this. The order of Victory is a brooch bar fitting. There is no physical evidence that there was ever a `screw back' fitting.

I am unable to give you any indication as to where the `brooch bar' was made except that it would probably be a fair assumption that it was presented to Field Marshal Montgomery in the form that we now see.

My own view, for what it is worth, is that the Soviet authorities may well have been informed, or perhaps made aware, that British uniforms have no provision for the wearing of insignia or medals fixed by the screw back method and may well have adapted the one presented to the Field Marshal accordingly.

Frankly, I think you will only find the definitive answer by checking with the Russian authorities. No photographs are currently available I am afraid.

Again my apologies for the delay in sending you a reply. (...)

Yours sincerely
Diana Condell
Senior Curator, Medals".


Ch.

It is very interesting to notice - in reading this answer - that this could lead to conclude that this order is, maybe, a new version of the Order of Victory...
And probably some of these Orders have been made in a customized manner...

Whatever, I'll try to investigate further, on the occasion of one of my future London trips. (I hope being able to get a pic of the back).

I'll keep you informed

Ch.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:10 PM   #10
Christophe
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Is there any Order of Victory in private hands ?

It is generally admitted that there is one Order of Victory in private hands, the one awarded to King Michael I of Romania.

For example, Paul McDaniel and Paul Schmitt in their book, the Red Bible, write in page 49 : "The order awarded to King Michael I is the only Order of Victory in private hands."

Well...


We just learn today, in this Forum, maybe another "truth".

Dragos03 says us that he "had the pleasure to have a long conversation about orders and medals with one of the last surviving people that received it: King Michael I of Romania (...). He claims that he never sold his order, as some people say. He told me that he keeps it in a box, along with all the other orders and medals he received. I have no idea if that is true, but i thought you might be interested in what he said."


See here, post#27 :
http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/s...ed=1#post54890


Of course,King Michael can be wrong. It is also possible his Order has been sold without he knows it...


For my information, I would be interested in knowing what are the precise sources that states that the Order of King Michael I is the only one in private hands. Can someone (Paul and Paul ?) help ?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Ch.
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