Prices/Value Discussion. - Page 41

Chuck In Oregon · 08-23-2005, 03:32 PM

Buying something to be the crown jewel in your collection ... now THAT I can understand. Keep in mind, though, that your idea of a crown jewel -- not to mention the make-up of your collection -- will change. Go for it.

Chuck

Dave · 08-23-2005, 07:45 PM

What I think is ironic is that there are still people out there willing to pay the prices, no matter what people are charging. You'll notice that most of the people on this forum that are buying awards are new(er) collectors. There's nothing wrong with that... All "branches" of militaria collecting need newer blood to keep from dying out like some hobbies that have a continuingly aging crowd (some of the antique areas are like that.) However, I'd venture to guess that the average buyer of Soviet awards (at least from my experience) has been collecting for less than five years, and many for less than three.

How does that differentiate them from the old people in the hobby? I think a lot of the earlier collectors have gotten burnt out on the hobby because of the raising prices. $100 for a post war Red Banner? A long service Lenin group of awards to a non-combatant officer for $1500+? However, there are a number of collectors now who started collecting at these prices and only know of the $20 Red Banners from the stories of veteran collectors. It's these collectors that save up their money to buy their "crown jewel" of a Suvorov 3rd or a single HSL Gold Star... Is that bad? Not in the least. However, it's these people that finance and pay the prices that the people that are chasing the prices upwards, and thus keep the market flowing, even at extreme prices. Can you do anything about it? Not really, because there's no way to stop all of those people from buying, nor is there any way to stop people from hoarding all the awards currently on the market in speculation for out-of-this-world pricing - which results on a lower supply and a higher demand, and thus higher pricing!

Ahhh yes... Back in the day...

Dave

redmedals · 08-24-2005, 10:57 AM

I do not know if the dealers are the ones pushing the prices artificially. It definitely is more expensive to buy almost anything Soviet today, even the more common orders and medals the main supply of which come from people in Eastern Europe and the Russian Federation. And these are the only sources of these items. I am sure everyone in this forum who purchases from suppliers overseas can attest to this. And if it costs a dealer more to buy a piece he is going to be asking for more when he sells it, this only makes sense. There are alot more collectors of Soviet stuff now than ever before and this does drive prices upwards for sure. It just stands to reason that a dealer does not pay (speaking in hypothetical numbers) $50.00 for someting he sells for $50.00 he will of course be asking for more. On the other hand I am certain dealers do not try to charge $1000 ( I am exagerating of course) for something they pay $50 for too.
I would love to see a return to the prices of the past on Soviet stuff but on the other hand I would also like to be paying less than $1.23 (Canadian) per litre (High Test) for gas too (One year ago $0.82/litre)!
Orders and Medals are not really a commodity so I don't consider them "investements" per se, rather one should collect for the love of history and of collecting. I would also point out that what the Soviet collecting community is seeing is what happenned to the WWII German collectables that were relatively cheap into even the mid to late 1970's but started to take off in the mid 1980's but you will notice that the prices on these have reached a sort of plateau where they have pretty much stabilized albeit at much higher levels than back in the 1970's when I bought my first 1939 Iron Cross 2nd class for $20. I would indeed love to see them available for that price now; speaking as a buyer of course.

roy · 08-24-2005, 11:19 AM

In my opinion, I believe that in a few years down the road, collecting Soviet militaria will eventually rival that of Third Reich items, especially given the fact that Russia has passed a law forbidding the export of cultural items. With this in mind, I've given serious thought to selling my German WWII collection, and focus primarily on Soviet, and Communist Bloc collecting.

zscout370 · 08-25-2005, 06:26 PM

What I also notice that many of the sellers on **** are selling the medals in British pounds or they are coming from off the wall places, like the Czech Republic.

Tretov · 08-26-2005, 12:50 AM

The fact that many sell in GBP may be a result of the fact that ebay.co.uk, at least in the past days, did not require a credit card (as ebay.com does). And another thing... Soviet items tend to come from places near the USSR, so talking selling soviet items, I would say USA is a more off the wall place

medalklector · 08-26-2005, 01:50 AM

There are many collectors of Soviet items in the UK. I go to the occasional weekend market and they are full of Soviet stuff....most items are crude forgeries but occasionaly I see some nice things.

One of the largest US dealers has just sent me an email regarding an order I placed, everything has gone up $50!!!! in the last few weeks. I know the market is moving quickly...but that's crazy!!.

Tretov · 08-26-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medalklector

One of the largest US dealers has just sent me an email regarding an order I placed, everything has gone up $50!!!! in the last few weeks. I know the market is moving quickly...but that's crazy!!.

If you have already placed the order, I dont think you should have to accept such changes, as long as the order was placed within reasonable time.

Dolf · 08-26-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tretov

If you have already placed the order, I dont think you should have to accept such changes, as long as the order was placed within reasonable time.

Yes, I agree, that's indeed what seems fair and reasonable!

Dolf

new world · 08-26-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medalklector

There are many collectors of Soviet items in the UK. I go to the occasional weekend market and they are full of Soviet stuff....most items are crude forgeries but occasionaly I see some nice things.

One of the largest US dealers has just sent me an email regarding an order I placed, everything has gone up $50!!!! in the last few weeks. I know the market is moving quickly...but that's crazy!!.

There's this one dealer famous for changing his prices at his will, even if you agree to his asking price - he'd change it anyway. I guess he's afraid of selling cheap.

As for the prices - there are limits to which dealers can push collectors. I'd say Soviet items are one of the most expensive items around. For the prices Soviet items command - you can go so much further with other countries. I mean - $7700 for Kutuzov 3rd class - that's around the price of German Knights cross, for which there ALWAYS be high demand.

William

08-25-2005, 06:26 PM	#405
zscout370 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oceanside, California, United States Age: 37 Posts: 30	What I also notice that many of the sellers on **** are selling the medals in British pounds or they are coming from off the wall places, like the Czech Republic. __________________ Zach Harden

08-26-2005, 01:50 AM	#407
medalklector Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 48	There are many collectors of Soviet items in the UK. I go to the occasional weekend market and they are full of Soviet stuff....most items are crude forgeries but occasionaly I see some nice things. One of the largest US dealers has just sent me an email regarding an order I placed, everything has gone up $50!!!! in the last few weeks. I know the market is moving quickly...but that's crazy!!. __________________ "When the man with the rifle gets killed, the man without picks up the rifle and shoots....."

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08-23-2005, 03:32 PM	#401
Chuck In Oregon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 209	Buying something to be the crown jewel in your collection ... now THAT I can understand. Keep in mind, though, that your idea of a crown jewel -- not to mention the make-up of your collection -- will change. Go for it. Chuck

08-23-2005, 07:45 PM	#402
Dave Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Age: 49 Posts: 700	What I think is ironic is that there are still people out there willing to pay the prices, no matter what people are charging. You'll notice that most of the people on this forum that are buying awards are new(er) collectors. There's nothing wrong with that... All "branches" of militaria collecting need newer blood to keep from dying out like some hobbies that have a continuingly aging crowd (some of the antique areas are like that.) However, I'd venture to guess that the average buyer of Soviet awards (at least from my experience) has been collecting for less than five years, and many for less than three. How does that differentiate them from the old people in the hobby? I think a lot of the earlier collectors have gotten burnt out on the hobby because of the raising prices. $100 for a post war Red Banner? A long service Lenin group of awards to a non-combatant officer for $1500+? However, there are a number of collectors now who started collecting at these prices and only know of the $20 Red Banners from the stories of veteran collectors. It's these collectors that save up their money to buy their "crown jewel" of a Suvorov 3rd or a single HSL Gold Star... Is that bad? Not in the least. However, it's these people that finance and pay the prices that the people that are chasing the prices upwards, and thus keep the market flowing, even at extreme prices. Can you do anything about it? Not really, because there's no way to stop all of those people from buying, nor is there any way to stop people from hoarding all the awards currently on the market in speculation for out-of-this-world pricing - which results on a lower supply and a higher demand, and thus higher pricing! Ahhh yes... Back in the day... Dave

08-24-2005, 10:57 AM	#403
redmedals Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Shediac, New Brunswick Age: 68 Posts: 99	I do not know if the dealers are the ones pushing the prices artificially. It definitely is more expensive to buy almost anything Soviet today, even the more common orders and medals the main supply of which come from people in Eastern Europe and the Russian Federation. And these are the only sources of these items. I am sure everyone in this forum who purchases from suppliers overseas can attest to this. And if it costs a dealer more to buy a piece he is going to be asking for more when he sells it, this only makes sense. There are alot more collectors of Soviet stuff now than ever before and this does drive prices upwards for sure. It just stands to reason that a dealer does not pay (speaking in hypothetical numbers) $50.00 for someting he sells for $50.00 he will of course be asking for more. On the other hand I am certain dealers do not try to charge $1000 ( I am exagerating of course) for something they pay $50 for too. I would love to see a return to the prices of the past on Soviet stuff but on the other hand I would also like to be paying less than $1.23 (Canadian) per litre (High Test) for gas too (One year ago $0.82/litre)! Orders and Medals are not really a commodity so I don't consider them "investements" per se, rather one should collect for the love of history and of collecting. I would also point out that what the Soviet collecting community is seeing is what happenned to the WWII German collectables that were relatively cheap into even the mid to late 1970's but started to take off in the mid 1980's but you will notice that the prices on these have reached a sort of plateau where they have pretty much stabilized albeit at much higher levels than back in the 1970's when I bought my first 1939 Iron Cross 2nd class for $20. I would indeed love to see them available for that price now; speaking as a buyer of course.

08-24-2005, 11:19 AM	#404
roy Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Benton, Tennessee Age: 51 Posts: 99	In my opinion, I believe that in a few years down the road, collecting Soviet militaria will eventually rival that of Third Reich items, especially given the fact that Russia has passed a law forbidding the export of cultural items. With this in mind, I've given serious thought to selling my German WWII collection, and focus primarily on Soviet, and Communist Bloc collecting.

08-26-2005, 12:50 AM	#406
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	The fact that many sell in GBP may be a result of the fact that ebay.co.uk, at least in the past days, did not require a credit card (as ebay.com does). And another thing... Soviet items tend to come from places near the USSR, so talking selling soviet items, I would say USA is a more off the wall place

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