Miniatures Of Soviet Awards.

[desantnik]

This letter does state that miniatures were not made, but how authoritative is this letter?

It is from a publication's editor (colonel) and I'm not trying to be obstinate here, but I know plenty of officers in the US Army (myself included) that are unknowledgeable about their own country's complete heraldry. In their mind, if they've never seen one, it doesn't exist.

How many former Soviet officers that are not collectors know of the existence of the minutiae we collectors know, research, and follow? When Paul McDaniel and I visited the Central Armed Forces Museum, it's possible we weren't talking to their awards expert, but we knew much more than the 3-4 museum staff we met.

I trust Alexei's opinion, acknowledge this letter, and note the burden of proof is mine, but I'm still not entirely convinced or no one has shown otherwise that these are not of Soviet manufacture.

Let's say for some reason it was decided back in the 1950s to wear miniatures, or a small group like the overseas diplomatic community floated an experimental test for a short time, this would explain the general ignorance toward these miniatures.

[Art]

Stupid question: it seems the only true authority would be the Russian mint, correct? as they would know the regulations on wearing such things if allowed to begin with. So, let's ask them...

[Al-muell]

Originally Posted by desantnik

This letter does state that miniatures were not made, but how authoritative is this letter?

It is from a publication's editor (colonel) and I'm not trying to be obstinate here, but I know plenty of officers in the US Army (myself included) that are unknowledgeable about their own country's complete heraldry. In their mind, if they've never seen one, it doesn't exist.

How many former Soviet officers that are not collectors know of the existence of the minutiae we collectors know, research, and follow? When Paul McDaniel and I visited the Central Armed Forces Museum, it's possible we weren't talking to their awards expert, but we knew much more than the 3-4 museum staff we met.

I trust Alexei's opinion, acknowledge this letter, and note the burden of proof is mine, but I'm still not entirely convinced or no one has shown otherwise that these are not of Soviet manufacture.

Let's say for some reason it was decided back in the 1950s to wear miniatures, or a small group like the overseas diplomatic community floated an experimental test for a short time, this would explain the general ignorance toward these miniatures.

Maybe the letter isn't 100% convincing, however, I think taht the colonel from "Voennyi Vestnik" maight have done some research. No proof of this, but the other issue mentioned in the letter (request for graduation badge) had it continuation - I mean there is another letter (not from that editor) on thist topic. It begins with the information, that they have received the letter from "Voennyi Vestnik" on that topic and that the badge will be sent as soon as they receive the data about graduation from the archive.
This at least prooves, that the colonel didn't only limit himself to writting and answer...

Of course i can provide a photograph of this document as well if neccessary.

In addition - I have never seen in any uniform regulations that something like miniatures was ever allowed....

[desantnik]

I agree the mint would be the best one to settle this question. True, the Voennii Vestnik writer may have done more research than just answering the letter.

If we still go with my belief in Soviet origin, a possibility could be a NON-military audience - labor or a civilian ministry like Ministry of Foreign Affairs and thus Voennii Vestnik wouldn't know anything about it.

If we discard the Soviet origin, does anyone else have any ideal what other country could have made them? Does Poland have a tradition of wearing miniatures, for example? If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Poland or Czechoslovakia... I feel we could rule out Albania, Yugoslavia, East Germany.

[Al-muell]

I have seen polish soldiers (especially veterans) wearing miniature awards. Unfortunately I lack sources to say when were they introduced and what are the origins of this tradition. The letter I posted was an answer to a request from polish officer (still in active service by then unless I am mistaken).

I have seen Yugoslavian miniature awards, however they were always attached to a ribbon bar (normal ribbon bar, not miniature ribbon)...

You may be right about a non-military origin. I would, however, guess that it could have been someone's personal initiative.

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by desantnik

...If we still go with my belief in Soviet origin, a possibility could be a NON-military audience - labor or a civilian ministry like Ministry of Foreign Affairs and thus Voennii Vestnik wouldn't know anything about it...

Paul,

It seems to me that a Soviet ministry would order its wears from the official state awards supplier, in this case, Monetniy Dvor.

Marc

[Nota Bene]

Paul,

I don't believe that miniatures were ever worn in the SU, not by the military, nor by the civilians. Even the Soviet diplomats on formal ocasions requiring them to wear dress uniforms with all the awards did not wear the miniatures. Also traditionally the Soviets did not wear tuxedos.

Another reason why I don't believe these are Soviet made is the quality. For instance, in comparison with a 50 Years in KPSS badge, made by the Moscow mint, these are crude.

In any case this is just my opinion.

Alexei

[Rick Research]

I remember these being quite common in Manion's sales etc of the mid-1990s, as if from a single cache being dispersed, but have never seen any offered for sale since.

They also sold (out?) for about $3 each in smaller ephemeral militaria catalogs of that period. I first got into Soviet in '94, and these were around about then, before I paid any attention to them.

Though they seemed endless at the time, apparently only the one lot and that's scattered to the winds.

[Nota Bene]

Rick,

Do you have any pictures to post?

Alexei