So sad...

USSR · 05-28-2016, 01:04 PM

Yet another beautiful group being torn apart...

***CtahhR*** · 05-28-2016, 01:43 PM

This sort of thing happens every single day. It is a disgrace but that's the way it goes.

Just yesterday I gave an ultimatum to a dealer I have bought tens of thousands of dollars of items from that if he continues to split groups I will withdraw my business. We'll just have to see how that goes.

USSR · 05-28-2016, 01:51 PM

Yes, true. I would never do that. Even if I knew it would cost me money. Strange when I think it over... Why would individual orders and medals sell for a higher price when sold separately? With other antiques and collectibles this is not the case I believe

***CtahhR*** · 05-28-2016, 02:00 PM

What I was told by the particular party I mentioned before is that they can sell the items faster if they split the groups.... For many of them it is about turn over rather than waiting a while for a higher price for the whole group.

Auke · 06-02-2016, 05:31 AM

It's my impression that groups often contain something that any particular collector isn't really interested in. A certain award, a certain document, a certain variation they already have, a certain condition. Splitting the group means that all items are sold off individually, there will be a bidding war on each item, and each will find a buyer who is interested in that exact object. Collectors who are willing to pay a premium for complete groups, even if such a group happens to contain one or two items they aren't really wild about, are few and far between.

I haven't seen this particular group, but if it really is complete, then there are 2-3 long-service orders that are quite expensive, but boring in most people's opinion. Although I too abhore it, splitting the group makes sense from a financial point of view.

PaulR · 06-02-2016, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auke

It's my impression that groups often contain something that any particular collector isn't really interested in. A certain award, a certain document, a certain variation they already have, a certain condition. Splitting the group means that all items are sold off individually, there will be a bidding war on each item, and each will find a buyer who is interested in that exact object. Collectors who are willing to pay a premium for complete groups, even if such a group happens to contain one or two items they aren't really wild about, are few and far between.

I haven't seen this particular group, but if it really is complete, then there are 2-3 long-service orders that are quite expensive, but boring in most people's opinion. Although I too abhore it, splitting the group makes sense from a financial point of view.

The priority for people that sell anything is not so much the fate of the item in the long term, but the greatest financial gain for their families. I am not defending the destruction/dispersal of history, but I can see it from their point of view.

Auke · 06-02-2016, 09:16 AM

I understand that, but how many sellers actually fall in that category? I think that by far the most sellers out there are (semi-)professional dealers and collectors. Sure, they want a decent return on their investment, but from them I would also expect some affinity with history, a sense of a group's historical importance, and a bit of restraint when it comes to considering breaking them up just to make a few more bucks. Sadly that's not the case.

Bill Garvy · 06-02-2016, 05:46 PM

A bit reductionist to be sure, but I think this is simply a matter of selfishness and greed.

Sorry, rave over.

***CtahhR*** · 06-03-2016, 12:41 AM

Bill has hit the nail on the head.

In 20, 50, 100, 1000 years who will care in the slightest that Comrade X was issued a variation 17 piece of metal with a variation 4b paper? No one. The deeds will be the important issue. These can only be fully known and enjoyed if the group remains together.

I think almost all collectors here would agree - probably not those greedily dealing though.

Bill Garvy · 06-03-2016, 06:21 AM

Not so fast, there will still be those interested in particular and specific variations of medals (the philatelists) and documents as well as the history behind them. Here is an instance where we collectors can have it both ways, if we're lucky.

I remain humbled to be holding an significant part of someone's life, a medal, a document, a set, in my hand, whether a General, a tractor driver, or coal miner, it's all of a piece, selfishness and greed notwithstanding.

We now return you to the topic thread already in progress. . . Chet?

05-28-2016, 01:43 PM	#2
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: So sad... This sort of thing happens every single day. It is a disgrace but that's the way it goes. Just yesterday I gave an ultimatum to a dealer I have bought tens of thousands of dollars of items from that if he continues to split groups I will withdraw my business. We'll just have to see how that goes. __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

05-28-2016, 01:51 PM	#3
USSR Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Europe Posts: 95	Re: So sad... Yes, true. I would never do that. Even if I knew it would cost me money. Strange when I think it over... Why would individual orders and medals sell for a higher price when sold separately? With other antiques and collectibles this is not the case I believe __________________ Up to 3 pictures may be added to a post.

05-28-2016, 02:00 PM	#4
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: So sad... What I was told by the particular party I mentioned before is that they can sell the items faster if they split the groups.... For many of them it is about turn over rather than waiting a while for a higher price for the whole group. __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

06-02-2016, 05:31 AM	#5
Auke Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 762	Re: So sad... It's my impression that groups often contain something that any particular collector isn't really interested in. A certain award, a certain document, a certain variation they already have, a certain condition. Splitting the group means that all items are sold off individually, there will be a bidding war on each item, and each will find a buyer who is interested in that exact object. Collectors who are willing to pay a premium for complete groups, even if such a group happens to contain one or two items they aren't really wild about, are few and far between. I haven't seen this particular group, but if it really is complete, then there are 2-3 long-service orders that are quite expensive, but boring in most people's opinion. Although I too abhore it, splitting the group makes sense from a financial point of view.

06-02-2016, 09:16 AM	#7
Auke Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 762	Re: So sad... I understand that, but how many sellers actually fall in that category? I think that by far the most sellers out there are (semi-)professional dealers and collectors. Sure, they want a decent return on their investment, but from them I would also expect some affinity with history, a sense of a group's historical importance, and a bit of restraint when it comes to considering breaking them up just to make a few more bucks. Sadly that's not the case.

06-02-2016, 05:46 PM	#8
Bill Garvy Comrade Curmudgeon Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,642	Re: So sad... A bit reductionist to be sure, but I think this is simply a matter of selfishness and greed. Sorry, rave over.

06-03-2016, 12:41 AM	#9
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: So sad... Bill has hit the nail on the head. In 20, 50, 100, 1000 years who will care in the slightest that Comrade X was issued a variation 17 piece of metal with a variation 4b paper? No one. The deeds will be the important issue. These can only be fully known and enjoyed if the group remains together. I think almost all collectors here would agree - probably not those greedily dealing though. __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

06-03-2016, 06:21 AM	#10
Bill Garvy Comrade Curmudgeon Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,642	Re: So sad... Not so fast, there will still be those interested in particular and specific variations of medals (the philatelists) and documents as well as the history behind them. Here is an instance where we collectors can have it both ways, if we're lucky. I remain humbled to be holding an significant part of someone's life, a medal, a document, a set, in my hand, whether a General, a tractor driver, or coal miner, it's all of a piece, selfishness and greed notwithstanding. We now return you to the topic thread already in progress. . . Chet? Last edited by Bill Garvy; 06-03-2016 at 06:24 AM.

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