Patriotic War. - Page 2

Tal Inbar · 03-30-2002, 11:34 AM

Hi

According to Shishkov/Muzalevsky, the alloy mark for the hammer & sickle is named: GSrM583-80. The gold weight in the H&S is 0.300 Grams, +/- 0.18 Grams. The Silver weight in the H&S is 0.041 Grams, +/- 0.002 Grams.

I didn't find ANY details to support the theory of copper in the H&S.

Tal

***Art*** · 03-30-2002, 12:11 PM

Good research Tal, thus if it wasn't an official alloy it wasn't done by the mint..it must be as Doug said, some sort of "cottage industry". But this seems hard to believe also. It seems as if it would be easier to say the order was lost or stolen than to be spotted with one of these copper H&S's and have a front tooth partially clad in gold :) maybe it was something that was tolerated but not enouraged?

Christian, are your OPW's with the copper hammer and sickles attached with rivets or bent prongs of some sort as Doug has mentioned?

CZ · 03-30-2002, 01:12 PM

Art,

my OPW,s have the H&S attached with rivets and they are fixed very solid. I have seen a 2cl OPW with bent prongs in Vienna once.

What is the sense to put a copper H&S at a 1cl OPW with this massive real gold-star at the mint? I think there is no sense.

Regards from Vienna

***Art*** · 03-30-2002, 01:47 PM

Christian,

Right..that wouldn't make sense. I think the logical conclusion would be that it was not done at the mint. Doug's story about the dental fillings makes the most sense.

Art

Doug · 03-30-2002, 06:14 PM

The serial number on my OPW 2 with the copper H&S is 358968. I'll post a scan when I figure out how to do it.

All the best,

Doug

***Art*** · 03-30-2002, 06:40 PM

Strange with the wide stretch of serial numbers, I wonder if the replacement was arranged "under the table" at one particular dentist? seems like it may have been done by more than a few people.

Tal Inbar · 03-31-2002, 02:41 PM

From the description of Doug, I think the H&S was taken from WW2 period hat badges:

***Art*** · 03-31-2002, 03:46 PM

Tal,

How would they get the H&S off of the badge? I thought these hat badges were all cast of one piece.

Art

Tal Inbar · 03-31-2002, 11:21 PM

Hi Art

I have a badge which is constructed from 2 pieces, and the H&S is attached through 2 holes in the star, with afew mm metal rods.

Tal

***Art*** · 04-01-2002, 04:53 PM

Interesting, they look exactly the same..I wonder if they're the same size?

03-30-2002, 12:11 PM	#12
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Good research Tal, thus if it wasn't an official alloy it wasn't done by the mint..it must be as Doug said, some sort of "cottage industry". But this seems hard to believe also. It seems as if it would be easier to say the order was lost or stolen than to be spotted with one of these copper H&S's and have a front tooth partially clad in gold :) maybe it was something that was tolerated but not enouraged? Christian, are your OPW's with the copper hammer and sickles attached with rivets or bent prongs of some sort as Doug has mentioned? __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-30-2002, 01:47 PM	#14
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Christian, Right..that wouldn't make sense. I think the logical conclusion would be that it was not done at the mint. Doug's story about the dental fillings makes the most sense. Art __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-30-2002, 06:40 PM	#16
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Strange with the wide stretch of serial numbers, I wonder if the replacement was arranged "under the table" at one particular dentist? seems like it may have been done by more than a few people. __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-31-2002, 03:46 PM	#18
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Tal, How would they get the H&S off of the badge? I thought these hat badges were all cast of one piece. Art __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

04-01-2002, 04:53 PM	#20
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	Interesting, they look exactly the same..I wonder if they're the same size? __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-30-2002, 11:34 AM	#11
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Hi According to Shishkov/Muzalevsky, the alloy mark for the hammer & sickle is named: GSrM583-80. The gold weight in the H&S is 0.300 Grams, +/- 0.18 Grams. The Silver weight in the H&S is 0.041 Grams, +/- 0.002 Grams. I didn't find ANY details to support the theory of copper in the H&S. Tal

03-30-2002, 01:12 PM	#13
CZ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 103	Art, my OPW,s have the H&S attached with rivets and they are fixed very solid. I have seen a 2cl OPW with bent prongs in Vienna once. What is the sense to put a copper H&S at a 1cl OPW with this massive real gold-star at the mint? I think there is no sense. Regards from Vienna

03-30-2002, 06:14 PM	#15
Doug Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 45	The serial number on my OPW 2 with the copper H&S is 358968. I'll post a scan when I figure out how to do it. All the best, Doug

03-31-2002, 11:21 PM	#19
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Hi Art I have a badge which is constructed from 2 pieces, and the H&S is attached through 2 holes in the star, with afew mm metal rods. Tal

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