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Russian Empire Россійская Имперія 22nd October 1721 - 7th November 1917

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Old 06-02-2007, 08:51 AM   #1
Christophe
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Imperial Russian Orders for sale ... but made yesterday!

I have a couple of basic questions for our Members living in Russia or often travelling there.

In many shops (specifically in Moscow, but maybe not only there...) you can find repros of Imperial Russia's Orders and Medals.

These are sold as new, no doubt about this, and are not destined to fool anyone.
They are made in what I would call semi-precious materials...

My questions :
1. Why manufacture such copies ?
2. Where and by whom are they manufactured ?
3. In your opinion, who buys them ? And for what reason ?
4. Are they only "souvenirs" for foreigners (some museum shops sell them...) ?

I would be interested in knowing more about these...

Cheers.

Ch.

Pic : © Christophe – ChR Collection
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:26 PM   #2
Nack
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Interesting. Nice-looking pieces. I wonder if you would get hasseled at the airport even though they are repros...
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:38 PM   #3
willie777
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I thought the Russian Federation only prohibited the export of SOVIET decorations...
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Old 06-02-2007, 08:56 PM   #4
Esteban_cool
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Although I do not live in Russia, I´m pretty sure they are made as space fillers.
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There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

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Old 06-02-2007, 11:31 PM   #5
desantnik
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There is a resurgent interest in Russian history, including pre-Soviet. This seems to be overall driver.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:38 PM   #6
ericlida
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Sometimes I buy copies of awards if originals are too expensive for me.
BTW they are nice looking copies.
Eric

Last edited by ericlida; 06-02-2007 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:11 AM   #7
Lapa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie777 View Post
I thought the Russian Federation only prohibited the export of SOVIET decorations...
Anything over 100 years is prohibited from export; if between 50 and 100 years old, you need to obtain an export license.

Marc

Christophe,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
...In many shops (specifically in Moscow, but maybe not only there...) you can find repros of Imperial Russia's Orders and Medals...
Not only. These seem to be available almost anywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
...These are sold as new, no doubt about this, and are not destined to fool anyone. They are made in what I would call semi-precious materials...
Believe me, these are often passed as the real thing. Obviously, if you have ever seen a real one, it should not be that difficult to tell, but then again, I have seen some excellent ones that would easily fool even some collectors.
I am not too sure what you mean by "semi-precious material". Most of them are made of white metal or of brass/bronze, and if needed, silver or gold plated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
1. Why to manufacture such copies ?
3. In your opinion, who buys them ? And for what reason ?
4. Are they only "souvenirs" for foreigners (some museum shops sell them...) ?
I agree with Paul on this question, resurgent Russian nationalism is a good explanation. Incidentally, the fact that the price of original imperial orders have gone through the roof may also be part of the explanation ;) I personally do not know any foreigner who bought these, but there must be some (well, Eric willingly confessed to being one of them :D )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
2. Where and by whom are they manufactured ?
There seems to be several manufacturers, whose product quality greatly varies from obvious copy to very accurate reproduction (sometimes [but rarely so] in original metals). I am certain that they are manufactured in Russia.

Marc
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:47 AM   #8
Christophe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
(...) I am not too sure what you mean by "semi-precious material". Most of them are made of white metal or of brass/bronze, and if needed, silver or gold plated.
(...)
I agree with Paul on this question, resurgent Russian nationalism is a good explanation.
(...)
There seems to be several manufacturers, whose product quality greatly varies from obvious copy to very accurate reproduction (sometimes [but rarely so] in original metals). I am certain that they are manufactured in Russia.

Marc
Thanks Marc for these detailed informations (and all others for your comments).

You globally say what I thought.

About the materials used : what I meant by semi-precious is that they are often silver of gold plated, and use Swarovski crystals or other sythetic stones... not only glass...

About interest in Russian and Soviet awards. It is interesting to see how recently books on this subject developed in Russia. We know some of them totally dedicated to awards. But when you go in a big bookshop, let's say in Moscow, you also find dozens of history books with at least a chapter on Russian or Soviet awards. And I don't count history books with a picture of a Russian or a Soviet award on them (cover), even if the content is not linked at all to awards...

About manufacturers : these orders and medals are for sure manufactured in Russia, as some labels concure to show it.
But, are they privately made ? Or done in mints as "collectors" or "souvenir" items ?
Have you any evidence tehse may be produced in a mint ?

Thanks again for your comments.

Cheers.

Ch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nack View Post
Interesting. Nice-looking pieces. I wonder if you would get hasseled at the airport even though they are repros...
I don't think so. They look so new, in their new box, with their new label (including a new barcode), and you will have a new invoice... ;)

Cheers.

Ch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlida View Post
Sometimes I buy copies of awards if originals are too expensive for me.
BTW they are nice looking copies.
Eric
Eric,

Some are very nice, very well made... and quite expensive...

Ch.
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Old 06-03-2007, 08:44 AM   #9
ericlida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
Eric,

Some are very nice, very well made... and quite expensive...

Ch.
Yes, I can see prices on some of them. But for original awards we would add couple more Oz or more :D
But still, as I can see from the pictures - the quality is not too bad, I would say good.
Eric
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:16 AM   #10
Lapa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe View Post
...About manufacturers : these orders and medals are for sure manufactured in Russia, as some labels concure to show it.
But, are they privately made ? Or done in mints as "collectors" or "souvenir" items ?
Have you any evidence these may be produced in a mint ?....
Christophe,

It all depends on what you mean by "produced at a mint". If you mean at Monetniy Dvor, my answer is no. If you mean at a private mint, then it is yes :D

Marc
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