FRAUD Alert! - Page 4

Henry Sakaida · 07-12-2003, 05:49 PM

I've only bought two medals off ebay when I was just starting out and very trusting. Luckily, both sellers were reputable! They were both US based. But I would never buy anything of $$$ value from someone overseas, ever. Here is why:
1. The guy is a stranger and you know nothing about him.
2. He could be running a scam.
3. If you are buying medals from Russia or the former republics,
you run the risk of getting it confiscated by their postal
authorities. I don't know how thorough they are about
outgoing packages. But in any event, your seller has already
been paid by you. If you get your stuff confiscated, you loose.
4. You may be getting a fake.
5. Unless you are an absolute expert, it will run you $85 or more
to get it authenticated.

My advice to you is to buy from the reputable dealers here, and let them worry about fakes. They are extremely careful about buying fakes themselves and they have their reputatiion to protect. If word ever gets out that one of them has sold someone a fake, believe me, we will all know about it! You may think you are saving $$$ by buying directly from the source...but you are taking a tremendous risk.
On the other hand, I once ordered a Hero Star from a dealer in Europe. I FAXed him, saying that I wanted the medal and instructed him to send me the medal upon receipt of my money order. Well, a few days after I mailed my money, it arriced by registered mail. And I didn't even sign for it. The postman simply stuck it in my mailbox! I know that my letter with payment had not reached him yet! I couldn't believe it!!! Go figure.
I hate seeing collectors screwed. As long as you buy from reputable dealers, you will be safe.

Tretov · 07-12-2003, 06:56 PM

I have been talking to a relative within the finnish police about this, she said she would check with "the guys who know more", but, since the value of my loss (150 EUR) is so low compared to other economical losses that occur, it is not likely that the case will be looked closer upon. I will get more info on this next week.

She also told me to contact the finnish embassy in Latvia. This is what they said:

- Be more careful when dealing with strangers. We can't do anything (sounded more like: "I dont have the time to talk to you, piss off").

When I asked the woman in the embassy to check if Savickis was in the phone book, she said there was no phone book in the embassy ( sure...) , and shortly after, they hang up.

... And still do I pay the taxes!!!

/Patrik

new world · 12-01-2003, 11:44 AM

Colleagues,

Just to continue the discussion on the topic of fraudelent sales - let's move the focus from Baltics to the USA.

My question is - if someone had commited similar fraud (ie. sold fakes, pocketed $$$ without delivering the medals, refuses refund, etc.) in the US - what would be the ways for us the collectors to deal with such dishonest sellers?

Where would we go to get help in such matters?

What kind of authorities should be contacted?

What are our rights as the buyers?

I think this is the topic of interest to all of us and if anyone has experience dealing with the matters like this one - please share with the rest of us.

Best regards,
William

Henry Sakaida · 12-01-2003, 12:13 PM

If you are 100% certain that what you were sold is a fake, then please mention the seller's name here. You would be doing all of us who use this forum a big favor.
The circle of Soviet medal collectors seems to be small and word does travel very fast.
There really isn't much you can do about someone here who sells you a fake. The post office really doesn't want to get involved unless they receive alot of complaints. Ditto for the police. They would consider this a civil matter between the seller and the purchaser.
Small claims court? Would you spend $$$ flying across the country to file a claim? If you were ripped off $10,000, you may want to hire a lawyer out there.
My advice to you: Only buy from a reputable dealer who will give you a money back guarentee. When they get medals from their suppliers, believe me, they will check it out. They don't want to be stuck with a fake either, and they are very very protective of their reputation. When you buy off ebay, you are taking a big risk because you do NOT know who the seller is.
So,...what fake did you buy and who was the seller??

ericlida · 12-01-2003, 01:38 PM

I think it's a good idea to let us know about dishonest people.

However, I disagree with the suggestion to place the name of the person who sold you fake. The seller might have no knowledge that the medal was fake. All of us can make a mistake and sell fake as an original, just because of limited experience or purchasing from other person as authentic. I would not want my name to be on the Forum list of people selling fakes, because I made a mistake. I think that it would be a good practice to let us know about people who pocketed the money without delivering the medals, refused refund, etc.

I would just call these people - dishonest people.

Eric

Henry Sakaida · 12-01-2003, 02:28 PM

Eric is right. I forgot to add the following. If the seller had guarenteed authenticity and it turns out to be a fake, then you are entitled to a refund. If no refund, then the seller deserves to have his name posted.
If the seller cannot guarentee authenticity for whatever reason, then the buyer has a choice: Buy it at your own risk or simply walking away.
If you buy it at your own risk and it turns out to be a fake, then it is unfair to have the seller's name posted here.
I understand that we are not all experts. But if you are going to buy a medal, you certainly don't want to be taken! This puts non-experts like myself in a precarious situation...I might want to sell off a few items, but I'm not about to spend $85 to get it authenticated on a common Order of the Red Banner or a Glory 2nd or 3rd.
I thought I had a solution, but Eric brought up a very valid point. Maybe with dealers, since they are in the business of buying and selling, if they screw you, then of course print their names here. But amongst collectors...???

ericlida · 12-01-2003, 02:44 PM

Thanks Henry.

I think dealers don’t deserve to be placed on the list of dishonest sellers either, if they made a mistake and refund the money. Everybody has right to make a mistake. It’s about how honestly you do your business with other people.

Eric

Dolf · 12-01-2003, 04:56 PM

Gentlemen,

I checked it right now and realize the seller William mentions in the 1st Thread of this series, is still on eBay, he apparently is from Latvia, but I couldn't find his email address. Right now he only has 1 feedback (obviously Negative!) posted, and no items for sale!

Isn't there nothing legal we can do, such as to complaint to eBay about this guy (and apparently others like him, as I've read in the previous posts), for eBay to banish him (them) for ever?!...

Thank you guys for letting us know about these dishonest sellers, it's good to know how things work, specially for recent collectors like me!

I agree with Henry, the names of these dishonest sellers should be posted here for all of us to know. Obviously Eric is right when he says that if it is a mistake and the seller refunds your money, that's a different case.

Again thanks a lot for sharing this valuable information.

Dolf

skipper1939 · 12-06-2003, 12:13 PM

Gentleman:

There is a well known ethnic Russian fraud artist in one of the Baltic states who has let it be known that he is "connected." He has warned a wide circle of regional dealers who have bought from him that if they don't like what they got to just eat it. His mafia connections, he has warned will "enforce" his deals and will shut up anyone who doesn't like it. He has also indicated that they have "long fingers" in the spirit of the old KGB.

Guess why I'm not naming him or pinpointing his location.

And in case any of you think that I am crying wolf, this shark has already taken a bit out of one of my close colleagues in the area.

Dr. Bob

Tretov · 12-06-2003, 03:35 PM

I guess the best thing is not to take any risks with this man (in Latvia), and be extremely careful when dealing with people that offers deals that seem "to good to be true". I lost about 100 euros to him.

The sad thing is that by avoiding "new" sellers with 0 feedback, you can miss really good deals that are not fraud.

/Patrik

07-12-2003, 05:49 PM	#1
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	Buying medals from overseas I've only bought two medals off ebay when I was just starting out and very trusting. Luckily, both sellers were reputable! They were both US based. But I would never buy anything of $$$ value from someone overseas, ever. Here is why: 1. The guy is a stranger and you know nothing about him. 2. He could be running a scam. 3. If you are buying medals from Russia or the former republics, you run the risk of getting it confiscated by their postal authorities. I don't know how thorough they are about outgoing packages. But in any event, your seller has already been paid by you. If you get your stuff confiscated, you loose. 4. You may be getting a fake. 5. Unless you are an absolute expert, it will run you $85 or more to get it authenticated. My advice to you is to buy from the reputable dealers here, and let them worry about fakes. They are extremely careful about buying fakes themselves and they have their reputatiion to protect. If word ever gets out that one of them has sold someone a fake, believe me, we will all know about it! You may think you are saving $$$ by buying directly from the source...but you are taking a tremendous risk. On the other hand, I once ordered a Hero Star from a dealer in Europe. I FAXed him, saying that I wanted the medal and instructed him to send me the medal upon receipt of my money order. Well, a few days after I mailed my money, it arriced by registered mail. And I didn't even sign for it. The postman simply stuck it in my mailbox! I know that my letter with payment had not reached him yet! I couldn't believe it!!! Go figure. I hate seeing collectors screwed. As long as you buy from reputable dealers, you will be safe.

12-01-2003, 11:44 AM	#3
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Dealing with dishonest sellers in the USA Colleagues, Just to continue the discussion on the topic of fraudelent sales - let's move the focus from Baltics to the USA. My question is - if someone had commited similar fraud (ie. sold fakes, pocketed $$$ without delivering the medals, refuses refund, etc.) in the US - what would be the ways for us the collectors to deal with such dishonest sellers? Where would we go to get help in such matters? What kind of authorities should be contacted? What are our rights as the buyers? I think this is the topic of interest to all of us and if anyone has experience dealing with the matters like this one - please share with the rest of us. Best regards, William

12-01-2003, 04:56 PM	#8
Dolf Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Age: 68 Posts: 572	colectibles_1 on E Gentlemen, I checked it right now and realize the seller William mentions in the 1st Thread of this series, is still on eBay, he apparently is from Latvia, but I couldn't find his email address. Right now he only has 1 feedback (obviously Negative!) posted, and no items for sale! Isn't there nothing legal we can do, such as to complaint to eBay about this guy (and apparently others like him, as I've read in the previous posts), for eBay to banish him (them) for ever?!... Thank you guys for letting us know about these dishonest sellers, it's good to know how things work, specially for recent collectors like me! I agree with Henry, the names of these dishonest sellers should be posted here for all of us to know. Obviously Eric is right when he says that if it is a mistake and the seller refunds your money, that's a different case. Again thanks a lot for sharing this valuable information. Dolf

12-06-2003, 12:13 PM	#9
skipper1939 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent, Ohio - USA Age: 84 Posts: 61	Scam and Bam! A New Dimension Gentleman: There is a well known ethnic Russian fraud artist in one of the Baltic states who has let it be known that he is "connected." He has warned a wide circle of regional dealers who have bought from him that if they don't like what they got to just eat it. His mafia connections, he has warned will "enforce" his deals and will shut up anyone who doesn't like it. He has also indicated that they have "long fingers" in the spirit of the old KGB. Guess why I'm not naming him or pinpointing his location. And in case any of you think that I am crying wolf, this shark has already taken a bit out of one of my close colleagues in the area. Dr. Bob

07-12-2003, 06:56 PM	#2
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	I have been talking to a relative within the finnish police about this, she said she would check with "the guys who know more", but, since the value of my loss (150 EUR) is so low compared to other economical losses that occur, it is not likely that the case will be looked closer upon. I will get more info on this next week. She also told me to contact the finnish embassy in Latvia. This is what they said: - Be more careful when dealing with strangers. We can't do anything (sounded more like: "I dont have the time to talk to you, piss off"). When I asked the woman in the embassy to check if Savickis was in the phone book, she said there was no phone book in the embassy ( sure...) , and shortly after, they hang up. ... And still do I pay the taxes!!! /Patrik

12-01-2003, 12:13 PM	#4
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	If you are 100% certain that what you were sold is a fake, then please mention the seller's name here. You would be doing all of us who use this forum a big favor. The circle of Soviet medal collectors seems to be small and word does travel very fast. There really isn't much you can do about someone here who sells you a fake. The post office really doesn't want to get involved unless they receive alot of complaints. Ditto for the police. They would consider this a civil matter between the seller and the purchaser. Small claims court? Would you spend $$$ flying across the country to file a claim? If you were ripped off $10,000, you may want to hire a lawyer out there. My advice to you: Only buy from a reputable dealer who will give you a money back guarentee. When they get medals from their suppliers, believe me, they will check it out. They don't want to be stuck with a fake either, and they are very very protective of their reputation. When you buy off ebay, you are taking a big risk because you do NOT know who the seller is. So,...what fake did you buy and who was the seller??

12-01-2003, 01:38 PM	#5
ericlida Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon, USA Age: 71 Posts: 761	I think it's a good idea to let us know about dishonest people. However, I disagree with the suggestion to place the name of the person who sold you fake. The seller might have no knowledge that the medal was fake. All of us can make a mistake and sell fake as an original, just because of limited experience or purchasing from other person as authentic. I would not want my name to be on the Forum list of people selling fakes, because I made a mistake. I think that it would be a good practice to let us know about people who pocketed the money without delivering the medals, refused refund, etc. I would just call these people - dishonest people. Eric

12-01-2003, 02:28 PM	#6
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	Eric is right. I forgot to add the following. If the seller had guarenteed authenticity and it turns out to be a fake, then you are entitled to a refund. If no refund, then the seller deserves to have his name posted. If the seller cannot guarentee authenticity for whatever reason, then the buyer has a choice: Buy it at your own risk or simply walking away. If you buy it at your own risk and it turns out to be a fake, then it is unfair to have the seller's name posted here. I understand that we are not all experts. But if you are going to buy a medal, you certainly don't want to be taken! This puts non-experts like myself in a precarious situation...I might want to sell off a few items, but I'm not about to spend $85 to get it authenticated on a common Order of the Red Banner or a Glory 2nd or 3rd. I thought I had a solution, but Eric brought up a very valid point. Maybe with dealers, since they are in the business of buying and selling, if they screw you, then of course print their names here. But amongst collectors...???

12-01-2003, 02:44 PM	#7
ericlida Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon, USA Age: 71 Posts: 761	Thanks Henry. I think dealers don’t deserve to be placed on the list of dishonest sellers either, if they made a mistake and refund the money. Everybody has right to make a mistake. It’s about how honestly you do your business with other people. Eric

12-06-2003, 03:35 PM	#10
Tretov Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Republic of Finland Posts: 1,129	I guess the best thing is not to take any risks with this man (in Latvia), and be extremely careful when dealing with people that offers deals that seem "to good to be true". I lost about 100 euros to him. The sad thing is that by avoiding "new" sellers with 0 feedback, you can miss really good deals that are not fraud. /Patrik

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