Suvorov. - Page 4

yolkin · 05-22-2003, 10:55 AM

How much you want for it?

:p

HuliganRS · 05-22-2003, 11:19 AM

I think it's not real.

...maybe it's me but hey, it's my opinion! ;)

Rusty.

Eugene · 05-22-2003, 12:03 PM

Just looking at the scan, I would say it's original. I cannot see anything wrong with this order.
Off course, I cannot tell for sure judging on the pic.
As the moderator says, "we need to measure and weight the order to tell more".

charlet · 05-22-2003, 12:08 PM

for the amount it worths, a certificate for a good jeweler will insure you it is made of real platinium...such a material cannot lie...but I don't know the market value of the kg of platinium versus th value of the award...even if it is very special to work on.

HuliganRS · 05-22-2003, 12:11 PM

Platinum is right about $675 for Ounce.

The price of this Order is around $20,000 - $25,000

Rusty.

AlexF. · 05-22-2003, 01:12 PM

Guys, guys, what-tha.... you're talking about? Weight of platinum in order of Suvorov 1st class???
Soviet orders are not valued for the material it's made of, although, it's always platinum/gold/silver, but of course, for people from other countries, it's of a big concern, since most of their awards (with just a few countries exception to the rule) are made from non-precious metals... no offense. On a related subject, how many of you actually saw and held real Suvorov 1 in your hands (let alone own)? Then, how can you debate on it, if the only thing close to it that you've seen is a semi-good image lifted off somebody's website, or a high quality, but small size, image from Paul's book? Hmmm...
To me, and once again, I don't mean to point fingers or offend anybody at this great forum, it makes very little sence to argue with passion on something you have no clue about... Then again,
it's fun reading for other members:D

Cheers,

Alex.

HuliganRS · 05-22-2003, 02:16 PM

Alex,

No one is arguing!!!

I agree with you 100% about content vs. price

Charlet wanted to know the price of Platinum so I quoted him yesterdays closing price on NY Exchange.... that's all... :)

Rusty.

AlexF. · 05-22-2003, 02:32 PM

I figure that much, Rusty. No problem.
By the way, this Suvorov #403 looks very good, and I, for one, cannot say anything on it's authenticity, unless the owner can tell
me at least the width, height, weight and diamater of a reverse whole...

Alex.

charlet · 05-23-2003, 11:58 AM

thanks Rusty, my education is now completed!
I had further reflexions after my post and saw quickly even with such material as platinium, profitability can be obtained...if thewhole copy is of course done correctly. So I said a... (the profit margin is really low , if we take into account the work of engraving, for a fake lenin type 5 or 6 with real gold).

My opinion cannot be very original about such a piece, but i find the enameling very neat and precise...it's one of the most difficlut points to fake...
in case of high paranoia (20000usd...), a confirmation from a jeweler about quality of platinium is again intreesting (and he'll not scratch it to examine it). When you'll have sold your cadillac (if you have) to buy it, then sell the car radio for a COA! ;)

cheers, sebastien

HuliganRS · 05-27-2003, 10:33 AM

Charlet: As far as faking the enamel... I spoke with several people whom have contacts in the FSU and was told that there are people over there that can "Restore" enamel to the point where most expert collectors won't be able to tell the difference.

I beleieve (Don't quote me on this) these people take off the original enamel and re-apply new enamel... hence it's pretty hard to tell the difference...

I personally believe that the fakers in FSU are at the point where they will use real Silver and Gold to make fakes... So the weight will be damn near right-on and as stated above the enamel will look right-on as well !!!

The only real way to tell is to examine the minor details that are present in the variations...

Any thoughts?

Rusty.

05-22-2003, 10:55 AM	#31
yolkin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago Age: 46 Posts: 206	How much you want for it? :p __________________ Soviet Union is the only country with an unpredictable ... past!

05-22-2003, 11:19 AM	#32
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	I think it's not real. ...maybe it's me but hey, it's my opinion! ;) Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193 Last edited by HuliganRS; 05-22-2003 at 02:18 PM.

05-22-2003, 12:08 PM	#34
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	for the amount it worths, a certificate for a good jeweler will insure you it is made of real platinium...such a material cannot lie...but I don't know the market value of the kg of platinium versus th value of the award...even if it is very special to work on. __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

05-22-2003, 12:11 PM	#35
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Platinum is right about $675 for Ounce. The price of this Order is around $20,000 - $25,000 Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193 Last edited by HuliganRS; 05-22-2003 at 02:13 PM.

05-22-2003, 01:12 PM	#36
AlexF. Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 65	Suvorov 1st class Guys, guys, what-tha.... you're talking about? Weight of platinum in order of Suvorov 1st class??? Soviet orders are not valued for the material it's made of, although, it's always platinum/gold/silver, but of course, for people from other countries, it's of a big concern, since most of their awards (with just a few countries exception to the rule) are made from non-precious metals... no offense. On a related subject, how many of you actually saw and held real Suvorov 1 in your hands (let alone own)? Then, how can you debate on it, if the only thing close to it that you've seen is a semi-good image lifted off somebody's website, or a high quality, but small size, image from Paul's book? Hmmm... To me, and once again, I don't mean to point fingers or offend anybody at this great forum, it makes very little sence to argue with passion on something you have no clue about... Then again, it's fun reading for other members:D Cheers, Alex.

05-22-2003, 12:03 PM	#33
Eugene Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 157	Just looking at the scan, I would say it's original. I cannot see anything wrong with this order. Off course, I cannot tell for sure judging on the pic. As the moderator says, "we need to measure and weight the order to tell more".

05-22-2003, 02:16 PM	#37
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Alex, No one is arguing!!! I agree with you 100% about content vs. price Charlet wanted to know the price of Platinum so I quoted him yesterdays closing price on NY Exchange.... that's all... :) Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

05-22-2003, 02:32 PM	#38
AlexF. Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 65	Suvorov 1 I figure that much, Rusty. No problem. By the way, this Suvorov #403 looks very good, and I, for one, cannot say anything on it's authenticity, unless the owner can tell me at least the width, height, weight and diamater of a reverse whole... Alex.

05-23-2003, 11:58 AM	#39
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	thanks Rusty, my education is now completed! I had further reflexions after my post and saw quickly even with such material as platinium, profitability can be obtained...if thewhole copy is of course done correctly. So I said a... (the profit margin is really low , if we take into account the work of engraving, for a fake lenin type 5 or 6 with real gold). My opinion cannot be very original about such a piece, but i find the enameling very neat and precise...it's one of the most difficlut points to fake... in case of high paranoia (20000usd...), a confirmation from a jeweler about quality of platinium is again intreesting (and he'll not scratch it to examine it). When you'll have sold your cadillac (if you have) to buy it, then sell the car radio for a COA! ;) cheers, sebastien __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

05-27-2003, 10:33 AM	#40
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Charlet: As far as faking the enamel... I spoke with several people whom have contacts in the FSU and was told that there are people over there that can "Restore" enamel to the point where most expert collectors won't be able to tell the difference. I beleieve (Don't quote me on this) these people take off the original enamel and re-apply new enamel... hence it's pretty hard to tell the difference... I personally believe that the fakers in FSU are at the point where they will use real Silver and Gold to make fakes... So the weight will be damn near right-on and as stated above the enamel will look right-on as well !!! The only real way to tell is to examine the minor details that are present in the variations... Any thoughts? Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

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