This is troublesome

Henry Sakaida · 06-28-2012, 01:08 PM

Back in the mid 1960s when I was a teen and didn't have anything like the Internet, I became interested in Luftwaffe aces, the Waffen SS, the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, etc. You know, normal stuff for teen boys!

In 1965, I bought a Knights Cross for $4!!! Wow!!! Then I took it to a local collector/dealer who told me the sad news. But he said he had a Knights Cross with Oakleaves and Swords, and he would sell it to me for $40. That was alot of money back then. I scrounged up all my lawn mowing and soda bottle monies, and went to buy it. At the point of purchase, the dealer said that what he was selling me was a RESTRIKE. I didn't care because I was buying a Knights Cross with Swords!!! I still have it. Everytime I look at it, it mocks me: "STUPID!!!

These were my first experiences with supply and demand, and fake collectibles.

I attended the SOS event in Louisville, KY a few years back.
There were many high end dealers there, with many selling one-of-a-kind rarities, at TOTALLY OBSCENE prices. When you see stuff with no price tag, that means YOU cannot afford it. And don't embarass yourself by even asking. The dealer with size you up in a second, and without even looking at you, say $100,000, with a hint of contempt.
Some had a POR tags (price on request). Maybe they should have a medic there at the display case, with a portable oxygen tank and a defibulator in case someone asks and then faints.

At the airport, we ran into a guy who said he used to work for "that guy" at the show. And what he said shocked me. He said the dealer had a expert jeweler in Israeli melt down WWII medals for the correct silver content, then paintstakingly recreate the rarity. He said the copy is so "real," no one questions it nor his integrity.

Google: NAZI CELEBRITY RELICS: REAL OR FAKE?

While this is all about Nazi militaria, it can also apply to any other collectible. Back in the mid 1990s, we did not have to worry about fake Soviet orders and medals. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, lots of desperate families were selling off grandpa's medals to survive, and museums were being looted. But now that things have stabilized over there, with the advent of the Internet and online auctions, and the demand for high end Soviet orders and medals, the scammers are out in force, wanting to separate YOU from your $$$.

The stuff you acquired through legit dealers early on, is safe. It's the stuff out there today that you have to be careful about.

I think this site, with everyone's imput, has prevented neophyte collectors from being scammed, and have saved them $$$$! But beware, I would not be surprised if this site has been infiltrated by scammers, hoping to glean information about how we detect fakes. So keep those precious tidbits to yourself.

When you start collecting, it is imperative that you try to become an expert in detecting fakes.

So far as I know, I have never seen a counterfeit Mongolian Navy Cross nor a Japanese WWII Victory Medal!

HENRY

Lapa · 08-05-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry Sakaida

...The stuff you acquired through legit dealers early on, is safe. It's the stuff out there today that you have to be careful about...

Henry,

Some "creative" people did produce rotten eggs even back then, and even before the fall of the Soviet Union.

Marc

Henry Sakaida · 12-23-2012, 11:36 AM

Everyone knows that China is the master of knock-offs. I've talked with individudals who have done business there. A legit American company will contract 100,000 units to be manufactured, but the maker will produce an extra 100,000 units and push them out the back door for sales at substantially discounted prices.

As you know, the Chinese have been counterfeiting US Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars, as well as gold coins and bullion bars. A few years ago, a NY coin dealer bought a bullion bar for $18K and later found out that it was a fake. It had an outer layer of real gold, and a tungsten core!

My advice to you: NEVER buy collectible coins on that auction site, or at gun shows, flea markets, or from people you don't know. I can't believe that some people will buy coins sight unseen online.

If there is big money to be made in collectibles, China will make them. They are producing realistic fake fossils! And those amber pieces you see at shows? They are very easy to fake! I hate to admit this, but I paid $1500 at a gun show and bought a huge piece of amber with an insect in it...only to discover that it was a fake! My wife always rubs that in my face. I keep it around to remind myself what a sucker I was. I failed to do research, it was an impulse buy at the gun show. Good! I just gave you at a $1500 lesson free of charge.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Happy collecting in 2013 and please be careful out there!

HENRY

***CtahhR*** · 12-23-2012, 11:43 AM

It the United States you can still get collectable coins in your change. I've got Indian Head Pennies and all sorts of Silver in my change over the last 5 years. Collecting them up for the face value is how collecting should be!

We also don't have many gun shows in England...

Coins were my first love and there are now over 130,000 in the collection. The only ones I've got from China are ones that were made for circulation in China.

Always do your research and beware!

Bob · 12-24-2012, 05:52 PM

If you want amber with an insect in it: go to Kaliningrad. A lot more fun and you'll get it from the "source". An interesting experience to see the mix of Soviet and German influences as well.

Dat Nguyen · 12-24-2012, 10:36 PM

Hello Henry,

Many many moons ago ... at the huge Frankfurt flea market along the Main River ... you can find these raw ambers for sale by many vendors ... One Russian or Pole, that I lovingly nicknamed "Jurassic Park Dude" had dozen of these ambers for sale. He even brought a chunk of ivory retrieve from a mammoth tusk to sale.

Pobeda45 · 12-25-2012, 01:54 AM

I rarely buy "raw" coins anymore--in other words, ones that aren't encapsulated and certified in an NGC or PCGS capsule. But there's danger even there as China makes fake NGC slabs.. so recently when I bought an NGC certified big ticket item I quickly sent it in to NGC to get encapsulated again! Luckily the news was all good this time; I have gotten burnt big before. Here's a photo of this great coin btw, I've wanted this type since I was a kid.

Happy Holidays guys!
George

claretbaron · 12-30-2012, 09:04 PM

very sorry read this message. i am a chinese, i had to tell you: chinese copy is bad for collection.
at china more and more colletor every year discuss copy thine. more and more knows copy is not good, but some chinese still do it. that is community party 's bad work. when i was boy china is not like this! now china goverment only say money ! they lost moral etc..
if you love chinese coins and sycee you must very careful, china have good copy. even an old chinese colletor must study every day and must with more guys.
Fortunately chinese copy guy seems only love copy chinese coin, so usa coin at usa i think you will not have more trouble.

Henry Sakaida · 12-30-2012, 09:38 PM

Thank you members for your comments.
I hope you don't think I am anti-Chinese. I am not. But they are very good at counterfeiting. If there is money to be made in high end collectibles, someone, anywhere in the world, will counterfeit them.

Happy New Year to you all, and Happy Collecting in 2013.
Don't get ripped off!

HENRY

***CtahhR*** · 12-30-2012, 10:08 PM

It's not just high end collectables if there's a profit (and even sometimes when there's not) it'll be faked or altered.

06-28-2012, 01:08 PM	#1
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	Fox guarding the henhouse Back in the mid 1960s when I was a teen and didn't have anything like the Internet, I became interested in Luftwaffe aces, the Waffen SS, the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross, etc. You know, normal stuff for teen boys! In 1965, I bought a Knights Cross for $4!!! Wow!!! Then I took it to a local collector/dealer who told me the sad news. But he said he had a Knights Cross with Oakleaves and Swords, and he would sell it to me for $40. That was alot of money back then. I scrounged up all my lawn mowing and soda bottle monies, and went to buy it. At the point of purchase, the dealer said that what he was selling me was a RESTRIKE. I didn't care because I was buying a Knights Cross with Swords!!! I still have it. Everytime I look at it, it mocks me: "STUPID!!! These were my first experiences with supply and demand, and fake collectibles. I attended the SOS event in Louisville, KY a few years back. There were many high end dealers there, with many selling one-of-a-kind rarities, at TOTALLY OBSCENE prices. When you see stuff with no price tag, that means YOU cannot afford it. And don't embarass yourself by even asking. The dealer with size you up in a second, and without even looking at you, say $100,000, with a hint of contempt. Some had a POR tags (price on request). Maybe they should have a medic there at the display case, with a portable oxygen tank and a defibulator in case someone asks and then faints. At the airport, we ran into a guy who said he used to work for "that guy" at the show. And what he said shocked me. He said the dealer had a expert jeweler in Israeli melt down WWII medals for the correct silver content, then paintstakingly recreate the rarity. He said the copy is so "real," no one questions it nor his integrity. Google: NAZI CELEBRITY RELICS: REAL OR FAKE? While this is all about Nazi militaria, it can also apply to any other collectible. Back in the mid 1990s, we did not have to worry about fake Soviet orders and medals. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, lots of desperate families were selling off grandpa's medals to survive, and museums were being looted. But now that things have stabilized over there, with the advent of the Internet and online auctions, and the demand for high end Soviet orders and medals, the scammers are out in force, wanting to separate YOU from your $$$. The stuff you acquired through legit dealers early on, is safe. It's the stuff out there today that you have to be careful about. I think this site, with everyone's imput, has prevented neophyte collectors from being scammed, and have saved them $$$$! But beware, I would not be surprised if this site has been infiltrated by scammers, hoping to glean information about how we detect fakes. So keep those precious tidbits to yourself. When you start collecting, it is imperative that you try to become an expert in detecting fakes. So far as I know, I have never seen a counterfeit Mongolian Navy Cross nor a Japanese WWII Victory Medal! HENRY Last edited by Henry Sakaida; 06-28-2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Typoes

12-23-2012, 11:36 AM	#3
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	This is troublesome Everyone knows that China is the master of knock-offs. I've talked with individudals who have done business there. A legit American company will contract 100,000 units to be manufactured, but the maker will produce an extra 100,000 units and push them out the back door for sales at substantially discounted prices. As you know, the Chinese have been counterfeiting US Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars, as well as gold coins and bullion bars. A few years ago, a NY coin dealer bought a bullion bar for $18K and later found out that it was a fake. It had an outer layer of real gold, and a tungsten core! My advice to you: NEVER buy collectible coins on that auction site, or at gun shows, flea markets, or from people you don't know. I can't believe that some people will buy coins sight unseen online. If there is big money to be made in collectibles, China will make them. They are producing realistic fake fossils! And those amber pieces you see at shows? They are very easy to fake! I hate to admit this, but I paid $1500 at a gun show and bought a huge piece of amber with an insect in it...only to discover that it was a fake! My wife always rubs that in my face. I keep it around to remind myself what a sucker I was. I failed to do research, it was an impulse buy at the gun show. Good! I just gave you at a $1500 lesson free of charge. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Happy collecting in 2013 and please be careful out there! HENRY

12-23-2012, 11:43 AM	#4
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: This is troublesome It the United States you can still get collectable coins in your change. I've got Indian Head Pennies and all sorts of Silver in my change over the last 5 years. Collecting them up for the face value is how collecting should be! We also don't have many gun shows in England... Coins were my first love and there are now over 130,000 in the collection. The only ones I've got from China are ones that were made for circulation in China. Always do your research and beware! __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

12-24-2012, 05:52 PM	#5
Bob Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Zurich Posts: 335	Re: This is troublesome If you want amber with an insect in it: go to Kaliningrad. A lot more fun and you'll get it from the "source". An interesting experience to see the mix of Soviet and German influences as well.

12-24-2012, 10:36 PM	#6
Dat Nguyen Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Antonio, Texas Age: 58 Posts: 216	Re: This is troublesome Hello Henry, Many many moons ago ... at the huge Frankfurt flea market along the Main River ... you can find these raw ambers for sale by many vendors ... One Russian or Pole, that I lovingly nicknamed "Jurassic Park Dude" had dozen of these ambers for sale. He even brought a chunk of ivory retrieve from a mammoth tusk to sale.

12-30-2012, 09:04 PM	#8
claretbaron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: hefei anhui china Posts: 106	Re: This is troublesome very sorry read this message. i am a chinese, i had to tell you: chinese copy is bad for collection. at china more and more colletor every year discuss copy thine. more and more knows copy is not good, but some chinese still do it. that is community party 's bad work. when i was boy china is not like this! now china goverment only say money ! they lost moral etc.. if you love chinese coins and sycee you must very careful, china have good copy. even an old chinese colletor must study every day and must with more guys. Fortunately chinese copy guy seems only love copy chinese coin, so usa coin at usa i think you will not have more trouble.

12-30-2012, 09:38 PM	#9
Henry Sakaida Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 92	Re: This is troublesome Thank you members for your comments. I hope you don't think I am anti-Chinese. I am not. But they are very good at counterfeiting. If there is money to be made in high end collectibles, someone, anywhere in the world, will counterfeit them. Happy New Year to you all, and Happy Collecting in 2013. Don't get ripped off! HENRY

12-30-2012, 10:08 PM	#10
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: This is troublesome It's not just high end collectables if there's a profit (and even sometimes when there's not) it'll be faked or altered. __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

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