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Fake Documented Groups/Bars Discuss documented award groups and bars of dubious authenticity here.

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Old 03-08-2015, 03:17 AM   #1
Al-muell
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Major General Nikolaj Bunin.

I recently got some remains of a larger award group. At first - everything looks OK, but then doubts rise:
1. He got OPW I '85. However, he only Nikolai ******ich Bunin listed with opw'85 on podvig got 2nd class. There's also another guy by that name - efreitor with CSM (could be my guy - he got hisVoG in November 1945 s jr. lt. from an officer school - not impossible for a man to be sent to officer course). Is this doc real?

2.From greatful Afghan people and Warrior-Interationalist. Seem o be filled-in by the same person. Not impossible for a WW2 veteran to be engaged in the afghan conflict (if he was a general), but something feels "not rght" about this two docs.
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Old 03-08-2015, 12:15 PM   #2
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Re: Fake Order and Medal booklets

I have seen these documents before, at auction and I did research them at the time and they do indeed seem to be bad. Unfortunately I can't remember where these were physically located at the time. Possibly Kiev. (Far too many pieces to remember every, or indeed any detail).
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:21 AM   #3
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Re: Fake Order and Medal booklets

The first doc does have nice handwriting though. I am less inclined to think that one is faked, the counterfeiters usually don't capture the style of the period this well. Also, if he was a Major General it's quite possible his records are restricted and not available on Podvig.

Regarding the last two docs--if he was a staff officer / Ministry of Defense, it is possible he would receive these awards from behind a desk..
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:09 AM   #4
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Re: Fake Order and Medal booklets

The group indeed came from Ukraine, although not from Kiev.
Some documents n it are undoubtedly authentic, but some are suspicious.
Apart from the Afghanistan docs there's for example a diploma for GDR "seven-year plan activist" badge, which Idon't think would be awarded to Sovit officer (even though ths guy probably served in the GDR).

Quote:
if he was a Major General it's quite possible his records are restricted and not available on Podvig
Is t possible? I mean - there are for example Rokossovwskiy's docs, why would they restrict data for on of many generals Soviet Army had?
Also, I must say that I have nver seen OPW'85 doc with awardee's rank given. Not that I have seen any to a active serviceman, but on the othe hand, this guy probably retired in 1982.
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:07 AM   #5
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Re: Fake Order and Medal booklets

There are quite a few senior generals on Podvig, but generally speaking their citations are more often absent (for whatever reason) than those of lower-ranking personnel.
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Old 03-11-2015, 01:52 PM   #6
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Re: Fake Order and Medal booklets

So - theoretically - If I would be interested in doing some research, there would not be a good chance to get the man's award information and/or service record?
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Old 03-11-2015, 02:05 PM   #7
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All the signs point to bad. The lack of information (wouldn't a Major General active in Afghanistan - even behind a desk, get at least one google hit?), the hand filled ballpoint pen Afghanistan documents (since when are the Supreme Soviet Gramotas filled in with a cheap ballpoint?) and lack of unit/authorising stamp on the Afghan document.

If I remember correctly this group was offered by a seller that is rather well known for having groups made of a skeleton of reality with a huge helping of make believe added.

Also - have you thought of searching for the '85 in Ukrainian? Often more ethnic names were used to record the 40th anniversary awards than Russian. Mikola might be out there....
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:16 PM   #8
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Re: Major General Nikolaj Bunin.

I assume that the Afghanistan docs are fake.
However, the core of the group is OK - thatmeans: jr. lt. in november 1945, career officer later, probably mjr.-gen. Armed forces Veteran medal in 1982.
But - is the GPW'85 doc a fake?
If so, the set was not worth what it cost.
I will post the rest tommorrow
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Old 03-11-2015, 03:59 PM   #9
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Re: Major General Nikolaj Bunin.

The interwebz seems to say:

In charge of the 30th independent training motorized rifle regiment in 66' with rank of lieutenant colonel

Made colonel in 1967
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:06 AM   #10
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Re: Major General Nikolaj Bunin.

That seem to fit ates on documents.

1. Victory over Germany - issued on 5thNovember 1945 to him as junor lieuenant.
The stamp says "NKO-USSR Lvov Military Infantry School"

2.Irreproachable service medals doc - issued to him with 2nd class awarding as major on 11th January1960, signby a commander of the mlitaryunit 77625, guards colnel ?

1st class on 22 Jauary 1964, sined y commander of the 58467 grds. colonel Rozancev

3. 50 years of the Armed Forces of the USSR - issued o 22nd february 1968 o him as colonel, sgned by cmdr. ofthe military unit 58369 mjr.-gen. Grinkevich (Hrynkevych?)
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