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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 05-16-2002, 07:05 PM   #21
Mahdi
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I would have to agree with Ed about the price guide. I have attempted to construct a list of price ranges in Russia and in USA, for all variations and types. After several months of hard work I gave up on the project, as the prices change, are not consistent from dealer to dealer usually, and there are too many "variations" to account for - small numbers, duplicates... etc
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:15 AM   #22
CZ
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You have price ranges everywhere in the world of business, so why not for a ordinary "Red Star", "Red Banner", "Lenin" .... , just as an orientation and also for statistical reason, that after a certain time you can see how the price levels of the awards moved.

Maybe to install a "Price Commission" at our forum, which collects all the information and proposals and adjusts 4 times a year the prices for the common awards at the market.

I also think, if the countries of the former SU are getting somehow wealthy, than a "Glory-Trio" with documents for USD 3.000,- will be an illusion.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:02 AM   #23
Ed Maier
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Christian,

I can see your point, but my problem is that this is not a price range for a "business" it is a price range for a collectable. In a volitile market place, the price guide is outdated before it is ever published. I would contend that this guide would be a disservice to the our community rather then a help for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

To use one example for a US Medal. I am looking for a US Navy W.W.II Distinguished Service Medal. The last Vernon's Price Guide that I saw listed this medal with a value of $375. This is fantasy. The only two I have been able to find in the last year sold for $850 (three months ago) and $1175 (two weeks ago). Whether we like it or not, this medal is valued on these two occasions at $850 and up no matter what the price guide says.

In addition, with the low prices that are being thrown around the board for Soviet items, I worry that the novice collector will think that these are real prices when they are not. This hurts there ability to truthfully judge the "value" of an offered item and also leaves them with the sense that they are being ripped off by a seller who is offering a fair price for a piece.

Just my opinion,
Ed
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:20 AM   #24
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I totally agree with Ed and Alexie regarding prices in Russia, I work in Azerbaijan and find most collectors here use the new Herefurth catalog as a starting level for their prices and are unwilling to accept less than it shows for orders or medals.
I actually buy more from US than Azerbaijan because of prices.
I've shown a few of the Azeri dealers print outs from completed online auctions to show items can be bought cheaper elsewhere and unless they get real I won't be buying any more from them, sometimes this works and they'll drop the price, and sometimes it doesn't.
The only big advantage I find is that you have the opportunity to see and buy the item without getting into a bidding auction against other people and if it's a nice piece you really like you grin and buy it otherwise walk away!
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Old 05-17-2002, 09:40 AM   #25
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collectables, but also goods at the market

Ed,

your are 100 % right for very rare awards, but if we speak about "Red Stars", "Red Banners" or "Lenins", there is such a hughe amount of this collectables at the international markets, that these awards aquired also the quality of ordinary economic-goods and as "goods" they behave strictly according to the laws of the capitalistic market. Believe me, for a common "Red Star" there will be no sharp and fast movement in the average price level.

When we look back the last decade, we can make out a constant decline in the price for very common awards, a movement which reached a bottom or basic line 2 years ago. On the other side at the rare awards, we saw an increase to rather high price levels. 8 years ago, I bought the "Glory-Trio", you see on the left side, from this Ukrainian Super-Rambo for only USD 1.200,-, a Kutuzov 2c ("Victory Parade"-replacement for a high NKWD(?)-officier) for USD 500,- and a "Meritorious Pilot of the CCCP" for USD 40,- - all awards in a very good condition and you know what the average market price would be today for this 3 items. But also in these cases, the increase in price was not at once a big jump, but a slow development.

Such a "Price Commission" is also important for finding out the trends of the price development.

To sum it up: The hughe masses of SU-awards made of the collectables also pure goods at capitalistic markets - my theory.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 05-17-2002, 12:45 PM   #26
Ed Maier
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Christian,

I see your point but I am talking about all awards, not just the rare ones. The problems with pricing still hold true and the effects of a guide could be the same. The $17 price for a six digit Red Star is a good example. For me, that price is not realistic. It costs me more then that to buy and sell them. While I'm sure that price is valid on some occasions, it is not a fair price on the majority of items for sale. Ibelieve that it is impossible to pin-point prices. Iwould support this if the guide would have a wide range, such as $15 to $45 for a Glory 3rd, but to say its worth $15 is not right.

For another example on the problems of price guides, please take a look at the recent posts of csmdmc in the "order of Labor Glory 2nd class" thread. This example works both ways.

Just my opinion,
Ed
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:20 PM   #27
Chris
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extra charges

Hi Folks

The cheap items in this part of the world i.e. a red star etc are 10 dollars ish. Hey maybe even eight for the high numbers!

This brings into question 2 points,

A. How much is the silver worth in the medal besides labour costs/historical value /and bravery.

B.Postal charges to America + profit (it may be a hobby, it's not a charity, however I believe some guys are near as dam it)

Using simple maths, I would say that we have had a good bargain.

just look at all the crap zinc german medals that sell for #####

Just a thought

regards Chris
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:48 PM   #28
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An alternative suggestion

Hi Everyone,

Just to make things a bit more complicated - how about the price difference between "issued" and "unissued" awards, like Service to the Homeland, Order of Honor, or Personal Courage? It can be quite significant.

I believe a detailed price guide would be a complicated endeavour, maybe we can just have a new forum, somthing like "How much should I pay?", where we can just deal with specific questions.

I believe there will be a significant price increase in Russia by the end of this summer.

Alexei
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Old 05-17-2002, 01:56 PM   #29
Tal Inbar
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So, Alexei,

Your bags are ready and you have the tickets to Moscow?.....

in a more seious note: the 'suply' of Soviet awards is NOT unlimited. Eventually the prices will go up, even the most common awards will be pushed up. And of course, groups and high orders are in very limited - and finite - quantity.


Tal
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Old 05-17-2002, 02:07 PM   #30
Nota Bene
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Tal,

Actually I've just charted a private cargo plane

You are right about the second part, the collectors in this country still want the good stuff cheap, and it is already almost impossible to get it at old prices.

Alexei
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