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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 04-07-2003, 09:45 AM   #31
Market Garden
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MOH Law Loop Hole

I find it hard to believe that a law was enacted in the USA to prevent people from claiming to be MOH holders, especially in this information age. It would seem that a keystroke and button click could prove anyone’s status as a MOH recipient instantly. However, it is interesting to note that the laws in the U.S. pertaining to the Medal of Honor doesn’t mention anything about trading it , so I guess there is a loop hole and it is still possible to obtain one.

John
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:57 AM   #32
Christophe
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Regulations

Tal,

Did someone of the Forum gave you an answer to this interesting question ?
As a newcomer in the Forum (so much appreciated), may be I missed it...

BTW, I'm relaunching the subject... I hope !

Thanks.

Ch.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:19 AM   #33
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Property

An interesting topic, state vs. individual property. I think with a medal you might be able to claim that it was a trade, or bought, from another individual inside the US. I doubt the Russian gov't can claim it as property if it was individual property in Russia, even if illegally taken out of the country.

However, I warn my clients who buy very high end cloth items that this rule does not always apply. If the Russian gov't can prove an item like a HSU or a named WWII Marshals uniform was in a state owned museum, and thus state property, they can go after it.

Also, some items, like WWII unit standards have never been individual property, always owned by the state. Thus they are defacto Russian gov't property. I have sold a few, and have a few, and always warn the buyers ( who know this anyway) that this is a fact. I doubt they will come after these items, but who knows.

Tricky....

DD
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:33 AM   #34
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Certificate or proof ?

And by asking any "official" certificate of "proof" of buying (Amex or Visa receipt ?) ?

Ch.

PS : I know that cash is the most welcome...
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Old 04-17-2003, 10:04 AM   #35
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I highly doubt that having a receipt will help someone if it's proven that award was stolen and FSB is going after you.

In many countries stolen property is confiscated from the buyer, even if he's not aware of the fact at the time of purchase.
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:57 AM   #36
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To be honest or not to be...

The only advantage in having a buying proof is to try to be leter reimbursed by the dealer (if he is one honest one... ). May be am I naive ?
In all cases, you can proof your own honesty to the customs...

Ch.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:25 PM   #37
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Bribe

You can take medals through customs if you know who's hand to grease.

If not stand by for a very hard time.

It is against the law


Chris
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:25 PM   #38
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I had an ugly experience while going through the airport there in Moscow getting awards confiscated... I had been sending awards home with people in their luggage. The stuff was always getting through, no big deal.

One day at the market, I bought this really nice 1920's Red Army flag top. It was really neat and I thought it would be grand to have in the collection. (It had supposedly come from one of the State museums, incidentally)

I had about 30 awards by this time, mostly Glory 3rds, Labor Glories, Red Banners, Red Banners of Labor, etc... Maybe $1000 worth of awards (I did have a nice three-digit Glory 3rd in there!)

My folks came over to visit, and when they were leaving, I decided to pack all my 'finds' in their suitcases for trucking home to the US.

Well, going through the x-ray machine, they picked the flag top right out, and opened the luggage. Somehow, they found one of the medals, and it was all downhill from there!

What was funny was that I had a number of WW2 Generals uniforms and hats that I had purchased as well... They had no interest in that stuff, they wanted the medals! Likewise, there was no interest in the flag top as well, even though it was definately a very old looking, and for anyone familiar with Soviet history, extremely historic.

Nope! All they wanted was the medals...

They took the whole batch of awards, bagged them up, and then sealed them with the customs tags. Interestingly, they let me take them (unescorted) to another customs window to turn them in. They allowed me to carry them in line escorting my parents to baggage turn-in, and the thought did cross my mind to put the awards back in their luggage! Had anyone seen that, I would have been in some severe hot water, I think!

Turning the awards in, they gave me a receipt for them, and said that they could be picked up anytime... by my father!!! I tried to just take them with me, as I told them I lived there in Moscow, but they said that since they were confiscated under his passport, he had to be the one to pick them up. Since he never went back to Russia, I never was able to pick them up. I tried going back later to pick them up, but they gave me the same answer. (That time did allow me into the storeroom of confiscated stuff... wow! A lot of samovars and icons!!!)

I never got my awards back. They're probably out there somewhere... Just one of those 'live and learn' things!!!

--Dave
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Old 04-20-2003, 07:56 PM   #39
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I once met a dealer in Soviet orders and medals. He told me that he avoided getting caught simply by NOT taking a plane out of the Soviet Union because of x-ray machines. He took the train into Poland, etc. He said they hardly ever searched his baggage.
Not all Customs inspectors are on the take. When I went to Kiev in October 2002, a Russian friend told me to slip a $10 bill to expediate movement. I decided to test it. I slipped my passport with a bill inside. The officer opened my passport, look at the bill, then at me and asked "What is this?" I was embarrassed that he asked me! Then he politely pushed the bill to me, smiled, and shook his head. I pushed it back and said, "It's OK." He pushed it back and said politely, "I'm sorry, no." I didn't push it.
Then I came to the customs inspector. I had packed a duffel bag full of food for my friends. He arbitrarily asked what was inside, did a quick mental calculation, and said, "Special tax. $90.00." I was shocked! What BS! And then he pointed to the back of the line and said, "Get special form there." I wanted to get out and didn't want to be delayed. Finally, I slipped him a $100 bill and said, "Come on! I have to go. No special form!"
He "reluctantly" took the bill and passed me through.
Some are honest and others are not. It was an intereseting experience for me. My friend says: "The government is the Mafia!"
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Old 04-21-2003, 09:48 AM   #40
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customs

They are pretty good about letting you know if they will take a bribe. I did one last summer in Kiev and it was only $10; got us all through about 30 minutes faster, no forms. No big deal.

However, yes, not taking an airplane out is the best way to go. I have been over 6 times, flown out of the country 5 times. But once, I took a train to Finland. No problems, no searches, etc.

I have had alot of high end uniforms brought out on the ground to either Finland or Turkey and then sent to me over here.

The BEST way to get as much as you want out with no problems is this; Take one of the cruises they offer of the Baltic. You stay in the cruise ship in St.Pete, your own hotel on the water. Each day load up what you want in your cabin and then steam away, no problems. Its an idea for the future... : )

DD
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