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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 11-19-2004, 07:44 PM   #301
HuliganRS
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Eugene,

I respectfully disagree with you.

A well know NJ dealer had several for sale at one time. One was $700, second was $775 and the last one was $850 with a doc.

I remember choosing between Kutuzov 2 for $1100 and Kutuzov 3 & Khmelnitsky 3 for $1450. I decided to go for 2nd class and spend a bit less money...

To this day I don't know if I did the right thing Then again, I haven't seen a Kutuzov 2 for sale in really long time...

Rusty.
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Old 11-19-2004, 10:54 PM   #302
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Nakhimov 2nd class order - listed by a NYC dealer - $19,600
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Old 11-20-2004, 03:24 AM   #303
Christophe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe
Noticed in the website of a well known NJ dealer : the Order for Personal Courage, Var. 1, SN7739, circa 1991, PMD COA, for sale without success during some 2 years time, is now proposed at $1,275.00.
It former price was $1,100.00, after having been around $1,000.00.
Last increase : +15% !! Will this increase contribute more to its sale ?

Ch.
Now, as an illustration and still from the same place :

"Order for Personal Courage, USSR type, Var. 1, #008018, circa 1991. Sterling, gilt and enamels, mint marked. Includes McDaniel certificate of authenticity. Outstanding condition: rated 9 of 10 by Paul McDaniel.
$1,490.00"

Raising ! Raising !

The former one seems to be sold... could this explain the new price increase ?

Ch.
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Old 11-20-2004, 04:14 AM   #304
desantnik
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Guys, get over the rising prices. This is a hobby. The market is simply reacting to high demand from collectors like you all over the world in the FSU, Germany, and Japan and low, practically no supply of certain items. If no one else was interested in these items, there wouldn't be the high prices you see evident today. If you are interested in only financial gain, sell your appreciating medals to others and everyone is happy. If you got some nice things for what would now be considered "low" prices - good job, you got lucky. If you can't afford what you could have three years ago and you still like Soviet items, collect veteran znachki or have the items you do own researched and gain an appreciation of history at the same time. No one likes higher prices or fakes, but it's reality. If you're just disgusted with the entire situation, collect Thai restaurant menus, cocktail swizzle sticks, or something else that no one wants that you can get for nothing. Just my two cents' worth.
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Old 11-20-2004, 11:32 AM   #305
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Well put, Desantnik!

EVERY collector can cry now for not buying awards 2-3-4-5 years ago.

What is the point in doing so? I don't get it. I could have bought Kutozov 3rd and Suvorov 3rd in 2000 but I didn't. What is the probability that in the future I'll have them? Almost nothing. So? I can cry for not being smart (hey, I COULD have sold my car back in 2000 to buy some awards), or, I could be happy with my collection as it is, and find a category in it that I can still afford.

Tal
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Old 11-20-2004, 11:32 AM   #306
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Desantnik... that was brutal!

I do not think that we are just b*tching and moaning for the sake of just that. We are all reminiscing about how we could have bought the same thing for much less years ago...

Now, if you are disgusted with the subject matter, turn to forums that discuss "Thai restaurant menus, cocktail swizzle sticks, or something else that no one wants" and ultimately does not complain about.

I for one enjoy the price increase conversations because it gives everyone a chance to trend and anticipate - and ultimately strategize purchasing. I also get to realize the appreciation of my items.

Best to you desantnik.
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Old 11-20-2004, 11:57 AM   #307
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Desantnik,

Brutal is right! You did catch the name of the thread, right?

Rusty.
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Old 11-20-2004, 12:24 PM   #308
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I just wanted to post my own opinion... Sorry for the long post.

Maybe you will say that I am not a true collector, and that's is your right. But personally, I don't care about types and variations, or low serial numbers. The same with classes... If I have a Partisan 1st class, I don't need a 2nd class. I am interested only in acquiring one item of each medals or orders. When prices were not too bad, I was buying as old item as possible, but when there was big difference like Lenin, I was looking at the latest variations. It doesn't matter that my orders are screwback or on suspension. As long as I have one (when I can afford), I am very happy with it. I prefer to pay less for an item and to buy many different items. I have no interest in financial growth of my collection as I don't ever expect to sell it... I would like my children (when I have) get interested in this and I can pass my collection to them.

To me, collecting soviet awards and other items is a way to learn about history of Soviet Union, about World War II, about the life of a nation. I like to hold my items in my hands, to review my paper items and photos on a regular basis. I like to research on the internet. I like to catalogue and organize my collection, to scan my items, etc...

Recently, I have come to a point where I simply cannot afford to buy orders and medal. The price for the missing items are simply too ridiculous. But I understand that this is market rules and not dealers' fault. Therefore, I have decided to expand my horizons a little bit and I discover the a whole new wolrd that is soviet paper items related with WWII, german occupation stuff, photos, badges, bank notes, etc.. This is the way I found to be able to continue to grow my collection at a fair price.

What I will do when I also face high prices there also for missing items? I will try to find other areas (labor and political documents and items which I already started). And when even there I will start to be restricted, then I will just stop buying. I will always have so much research work to do, so much collection display work to do... I have so many ideas about how to organize, how to document my collection and how to display it, but for now, I simply don't have time.... to busy with my huntings for more items.

This is how I personally see collecting. I have no problem with the recent higher prices. If some people want to buy at those prices... good for them. But for me, I prefer to pass. It seems that my most valuable item in my collection will always remain a documented Lenin Type 6 Variation 1 (Thanks to Alexei!). This is just fine!

To conclude about high prices, I believe high prices are there to stay and will continue to grow. Why I don't find attracting to buy now if I think it will be more expensive later? Because it already passed the point where it too much expensive to me. I prefer to use my hard earned money for other things in life which are much more important than a hobby. Because we need to remember that for most of us, this is a hobby. Which is very different for few people for which this is purely an investment.
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Old 11-20-2004, 12:29 PM   #309
Eugene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuliganRS
Eugene,

I respectfully disagree with you.

A well know NJ dealer had several for sale at one time. One was $700, second was $775 and the last one was $850 with a doc.

I remember choosing between Kutuzov 2 for $1100 and Kutuzov 3 & Khmelnitsky 3 for $1450. I decided to go for 2nd class and spend a bit less money...


Rusty.

Rusty,
Sure you can disagree with me. It's your right. I was refering to the collectable orders that would be graded 7 out of 10 or higher by Paul. The one you mentioned for $700 I or most of fellow collectors would never consider this order as collectable items because of its terrible condition.
The same dealer from NJ never sold collectable one cheaper than $900.
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Old 11-20-2004, 12:37 PM   #310
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I just bought a Order of Personal Courage Includes McDaniel certificate of authenticity 10 out of 10 and original issue box for $1350.

Why? have you seen many authenticated Orders of Personal Courage??
Almost impossible to find.
Lots out there without the authentication and mostly all fakes. Some even refused to send to Paul for authentication.

This is one Order I would neveer buy without the authentication, so you get what you pay for.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Christophe
Now, as an illustration and still from the same place :

"Order for Personal Courage, USSR type, Var. 1, #008018, circa 1991. Sterling, gilt and enamels, mint marked. Includes McDaniel certificate of authenticity. Outstanding condition: rated 9 of 10 by Paul McDaniel.
$1,490.00"

Raising ! Raising !

The former one seems to be sold... could this explain the new price increase ?

Ch.
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