Order Booklets - Page 3

Nota Bene · 10-21-2002, 06:19 PM

Mark,

I think this is very unusual. In Russia a photo would never be cut like this to show the stamp. The stamp serves to indicate that the photo was attached by the authorities and is original to the document. This sort of "modification" would invalidate a document. Also normally award documents without a photo would have a stamp saying "valid without a photo", but not a large round stamp like this. I don't know what to make of it :confused:

Alexei

***Art*** · 10-21-2002, 06:55 PM

I'm curious as to why the stamp would be present? the stamp occurs under the photograph. No area of the stamp is missing which in normal circumstances, would have been done over the top of a photo. If the original photo was removed, so would have part of the original stamp.

I wonder if there is a "valid without photograph" stamp underneath that photo. It would sure add to the mystery.

Art

Nota Bene · 10-21-2002, 07:08 PM

Art,

My point exactly. I have never seen anything like this before.

Alexei

Mozzabloke · 10-22-2002, 11:53 AM

Recieved award book this morning. The scan on ebay was not very clear the photo does have a white border on it but unusualy it runs along the bottom of the photo rather than up the side.

Mark

Tal Inbar · 10-22-2002, 12:19 PM

The last picture show that ther is a stamp "valid without photo", so obviously the picture was added later.

I have the following docs with the same white corner:

Soldier ID, Officer ID, and work union ID.

Mozzabloke · 10-22-2002, 03:21 PM

The stamp runs perfectly over the photo Im not sure why anyone would want to stamp over a photo with a photo not required stamp. Also the book only lists one order of lenin, My guess is that most fakers would not be able to resist adding more awards.

Im more confused than ever!

Mark

:confused:

Nota Bene · 10-22-2002, 04:44 PM

Glen,

We are not talking about the white corner, which was quite common, but about a cut out corner.

Mark,

I still don't know what to make of it. If the photo was added later then what is that round seal doing there? :confused:

Alexei

otlichnik · 10-23-2002, 02:12 AM

Why do we think the photo was added later??

Does the "valid without photo" stamp go OVER the photo?? It appears to me that it is there UNDER the photo.

I don't think that this stamp means that it was necessarily issued without a photo. I have seen several types of docs where "valid without photo" is actually printed, not stamped, in the photo spot and is thus always there. Also, I have seen blank books with the "valid without photo" stamp already in place. I assume it is a default stamp.

In this case the photo appears to be a bit small so part of the stamp shows under it.

Shawn

Mozzabloke · 10-23-2002, 08:06 AM

Shawn,

Thanks that seems to be the most plausable explanation so far.

I had not seen the small stamp behind the photo and not being able to read russian assumed that it was the round stamp Tal was talking about.

Mark

Nota Bene · 10-23-2002, 05:33 PM

Shawn,

I have never seen an award booklet with a printed "valid without photo" stamp. :( Would you have one to post? I would realy like to see it.

I believe the photo is not original because of the cut-out section. Also if it were original the round stamp would be covering part of the photo. I think for some reason they have put the round stamp in the booklet, and later the owner had added the photo, cutting out a section to show the stamp.

Alexei

10-21-2002, 06:55 PM	#2
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	I'm curious as to why the stamp would be present? the stamp occurs under the photograph. No area of the stamp is missing which in normal circumstances, would have been done over the top of a photo. If the original photo was removed, so would have part of the original stamp. I wonder if there is a "valid without photograph" stamp underneath that photo. It would sure add to the mystery. Art __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

10-22-2002, 12:19 PM	#5
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	The last picture show that ther is a stamp "valid without photo", so obviously the picture was added later. I have the following docs with the same white corner: Soldier ID, Officer ID, and work union ID. __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

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10-21-2002, 06:19 PM	#1
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Mark, I think this is very unusual. In Russia a photo would never be cut like this to show the stamp. The stamp serves to indicate that the photo was attached by the authorities and is original to the document. This sort of "modification" would invalidate a document. Also normally award documents without a photo would have a stamp saying "valid without a photo", but not a large round stamp like this. I don't know what to make of it :confused: Alexei

10-21-2002, 07:08 PM	#3
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Art, My point exactly. I have never seen anything like this before. Alexei

10-22-2002, 03:21 PM	#6
Mozzabloke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sheffield, England Age: 49 Posts: 104	The stamp runs perfectly over the photo Im not sure why anyone would want to stamp over a photo with a photo not required stamp. Also the book only lists one order of lenin, My guess is that most fakers would not be able to resist adding more awards. Im more confused than ever! Mark :confused:

10-22-2002, 04:44 PM	#7
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Glen, We are not talking about the white corner, which was quite common, but about a cut out corner. Mark, I still don't know what to make of it. If the photo was added later then what is that round seal doing there? :confused: Alexei

10-23-2002, 02:12 AM	#8
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Why do we think the photo was added later?? Does the "valid without photo" stamp go OVER the photo?? It appears to me that it is there UNDER the photo. I don't think that this stamp means that it was necessarily issued without a photo. I have seen several types of docs where "valid without photo" is actually printed, not stamped, in the photo spot and is thus always there. Also, I have seen blank books with the "valid without photo" stamp already in place. I assume it is a default stamp. In this case the photo appears to be a bit small so part of the stamp shows under it. Shawn

10-23-2002, 08:06 AM	#9
Mozzabloke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sheffield, England Age: 49 Posts: 104	Shawn, Thanks that seems to be the most plausable explanation so far. I had not seen the small stamp behind the photo and not being able to read russian assumed that it was the round stamp Tal was talking about. Mark

10-23-2002, 05:33 PM	#10
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Shawn, I have never seen an award booklet with a printed "valid without photo" stamp. :( Would you have one to post? I would realy like to see it. I believe the photo is not original because of the cut-out section. Also if it were original the round stamp would be covering part of the photo. I think for some reason they have put the round stamp in the booklet, and later the owner had added the photo, cutting out a section to show the stamp. Alexei

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