book from 1926 about Red Banner PBCP

[Alfred]

Hello,

found this book from 1926 with 304 pages on the internet.
Seems to be a list of recipants of Red Banner PCFCP.
What is the meaning of PRIK PBCP?

regards
Andreas

[desantnik]

"Prik" is definitely "order" (authorizing document) and "RVSR" is "Revolutionary Military Council" with the final "R" being "of the Russian Federation", I believe. I'm going off of memory, anyone else?

[Nota Bene]

Paul,

The "R" in this case stands for "Republic".

Alexei

[desantnik]

Thanks Alexei. I knew what it was from context and figured it was the RSFSR, but they justn't couldn't fit it in.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by desantnik

I can't really see much utility to this document since there is no award serial number or date involved with awarding.

I think the utility of this document is the unit listing. I've only owned a couple of the RSFSR Red Banner documents, but as I recall the person's unit isn't always listed on the document. Further, if one did happen to encounter a group to a person who did earn an RSFSR Red Banner (without the original award document) you'd be able to find out what unit they were in. Sure, it would be handy to have the serial numbers, but in the off chance that someday one finds a group that meets one of those two criteria (though the chance is....unlikely...) it's a handy document. :D

Dave

[desantnik]

Dave, I'll admit there is a minimal shred of utility, but only in a extremely limited number of cases.

Do the 304 pages list ALL the RSFSR Republican RB recipients? If you are one of the small handful of people who happen to have a Republican RB document laying around in which the unit is unlisted and the recipient's name is on the list, you'll be able to find it only up to what looks like brigade level due to the limited space. Info on Revolution/Civ War units is difficult to come by, and even then you'll only find the awarding date down to the year. A LOT happened in a year during the Russian revolution.

I have one volume (A-L) of all Afghan War KIA/WIAs and it lists their bios with awards similar to the Hero book (incidentally, typical KIA awarding to any rank was RS as war progressed, but I digress). Thinking it to be useful, I have humped this damn book around with me on every move and in ten years was able to help someone once in South Africa find info on a recipient, and even then, the Red Star was lost in the mail... Thus my jaded approach to info that is not of wide applicability.

Now if I was to translate the entire book, put it on the web, I wouldn't have to lug it around...(keep dreaming)

[Dave]

Originally Posted by desantnik

Now if I was to translate the entire book, put it on the web, I wouldn't have to lug it around...(keep dreaming)

:laff

Paul -

You're absolutely right. If I still owned EVERY book that could possibly help me in my collecting search I would not only be out of room in my library, but maybe my house as well! :D I started "unloading" my excess reference books after I had to move my house on my own once. My problem was that I had so many, I never even used the ones I COULD have used because I could never remember what I had! (Plus, by selling them it made for a nice pile of $$$$ as well.) ;)

So, I'd agree - the RSFSR book would be of very, very limited use. Of course, at the same time, since I have yet to find an OOB for the Red Army during the Civil War, perhaps this book might better serve as a semblance of a foundation for something like that! (Even still, another needle in the haystack...)

But hey, if it's free, who's complaining? ;)

Dave

[Aharim]

We can argue about possible utility but let's test it out.

What would the book happen to have on comrade Roshin, Sergei Ivanovich, believed to have been a squadron or platoon commander. He did something so impressive in 1920 that in 1924 he appears to have recevied an award, but the document is sort of vague.

You can send a PM so I don't miss you if you happen to be watching.

Second sources are always good to historians. They fill in blanks (and sometimes open new questions or areas of inquiry).

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by Aharim

We can argue about possible utility but let's test it out.

What would the book happen to have on comrade Roshin, Sergei Ivanovich, believed to have been a squadron or platoon commander. He did something so impressive in 1920 that in 1924 he appears to have recevied an award, but the document is sort of vague.

You can send a PM so I don't miss you if you happen to be watching.

Second sources are always good to historians. They fill in blanks (and sometimes open new questions or areas of inquiry).

That's my point. Dave's source has only the individual's name, unit, date of awarding, Edict #, and type of award.

In Roshin's case, you already know his name, unit, date of awarding, and type of award. The only new thing you'll discover is the award's Edict number.

Nice to know, but doesn't reveal much more about the circumstances of the awarding or the recipient.