Red Army Order of Battle book

[otlichnik]

Dan,

If you are ever looking for some info on a specific unit or two let me know and I will see what I can find.

I like to charge for large volumes (it is just a question of my time really) but I am always happy to look up a few things for free.

Shawn

[Dave]

Originally posted by otlichnik
However, there are fewer alternatives. The best one is very costly and hard to find - the 1250 page plus, Russian language, formerly secret General Staff report "Boevoi Sostav Sovetskoi Armii" (Combat composition of the Soviet Army).

Shawn-

Oooooooohhhhhhhh.....! Definately a book I NEED! Can you post up (or PM me) the data on the book, e.g. date of publication, etc.... I'd definately love to find a copy (though being realistic, I know that it may be years before I do!)

-Dave

[otlichnik]

Just a short note which I hope will highlight the relative value and accuracy of sources.

I am currently researching the 153rd Rifle Regiment. The only way to do this is to research its Rifle Division, once I had identified that - the 80th RD (2nd formation).

Conner and Poirier do not tend to distinguish between the different divisional formations which is a grave error as more than a third of Soviet rifle division numbers were used more than once during the war. Several dozen were in fact used three times. The C&P entries for the 80th RD were confusingly a short mix of selections from both the 1st and 2nd formation of the units as well as a few which did not apply to either and were simply wrong. Sadly, this meant that the info provided was less than 1/3 correct depending of which formation one wanted to research.

Charles Sharp’s history was much better, which is not surprising considering what he had access to compared to C&P’s pioneering work. He lists the 1st and 2nd formation of the 80th RD separately (but in separate volumes). His history of the short lived 1st formation catches all the key activities of the unit. However, his history of the 2nd formation, though containing no errors, misses out on more than half the Operations which the division participated in.

To come up with the final picture took access to several books by David Glantz, some very rare privately published ones and some mainstream, as well as a couple by other authors. There are still some holes as there is no good up to date study yet of the Leningrad Front’s Pskov-Ostrov operation in July 1944 and, more disturbingly, of the Vistula-Oder operation of January-February 1945.

Shawn

[Dave]

Shawn, I know that same feeling!

When I write a bio for my website, I normally set aside an entire day for typing it up (and what I do isn't even considered in-depth research!).

By the end of the day, I will have, on average, fifteen to twenty reference books around my desk. I'll have Conner and Poirier out, which I use as a "general reference" especially if the person was attached to a Corps or Army. I'll also have at least one, sometimes two or three copies of Sharp's Order of Battle, which I use to trace a unit through their formation and combat experience, especially in the case of more senior officers, many of whom served in one, sometimes two units which were destroyed in the summer-fall campaign of 1941.

Following those, I will also have out "Soviet Combat Casualties of the 20th Century" (I don't remember the author off-hand, and I'm typing this at work) which details the majority of major operations during the War, their objectives, units involved and losses. I use this book to give me a general insight into particular operations. Since I'm only writing a bio, I rarely need to start pulling out my Glantz books as a decent synopsis will usually suffice. If I need to pull them out, I think I have nearly every Glantz book published or unpublished, and can access individual units in there.

Occasionally, if the person was the veteran of one of the "major" battles, I'll pull out references on those battles. This would include about three major books on Berlin, a half dozen (including some old Soviet works) on Stalingrad, a few on Moscow, etc.

Finally, I pull out the books that I will end up using the MOST for the biography! These start with the one-volume Encyclopedia of the Patriotic War from the 1980's, and for more in-depth info, the six-volume series of the same Encylopedia from the 60's. These I primarily use for their maps. Once I find the unit (or whatever iteration it was at the time the person being researched served with it) I can then trace it though it's path from west to east in the early part of the War, and from east to west in the latter part of the War.

Many times, the path of the unit will pass over a major city or area where there was a major battle. If the battle isn't included in Glantz's works, it's often covered in the German histories of the War, and at this point, the Werner Haupt series of "Army Group North" "...Center" and "...South" get pulled off the shelf, and I can glean the depth of the Soviet actions from the German accounts, as well as what German units were involved in the battle, and their composition.

Sometimes the information contradicts each other, and at that point, since I'm trying to give my reader the highlights of certain battles, I use my judgement based on previous readings as to what may have happened.

Over the past six years that I've been researching groups like this, I've accumulated well over one hundred books involving the eastern front. The vast majority I may have cracked open once, perhaps twice at best. However, had I not had that particular book for that particular case, the bio would not have been quite as complete as I would have liked it to have been.

I guess that's all the fun of research! :)

--Dave

[new world]

Dave,

It's amazing how much effort you put into descriptions for your groups! When I read them on your site - I didn't realize there's so much reference material used to put together those summaries!!!

It looks like many of your source books are published in Russian - I wasn't aware your Russian is so good as to allow you reading Russian texts!

Amazing!

William

[Dave]

Originally posted by new world
I wasn't aware your Russian is so good as to allow you reading Russian texts!

Ahhh... yes... Sometimes I surprise even myself! :D

Actually, as long as the Russian is in small bits, such as a chart, map, or small amounts of text, I'm fine. :)

--Dave