Miner's Visor Cap

[Dzerzhinsky]

Without mentioning names, many years ago, I was the victim of a notable authority concerning this type of hat. The officer hat for this has a black velvet band and the same blue piping. The cap badge that belongs to this is not common, so it is difficult to locate a complete hat. In my situation, someone simply pinned a embroidered navy badge on the hat and sold it to me as KGB navy. Once I learned this was bogus, I eventually began researching it further and determined the error. Hense, it is evident to me that someone placed a common parade badge on this hat to simply unload it. Am I correct? Maybe someone should contact Randy Stewart and ask him? He is the author of the Under the Red Star webpage and a real authority on Gorbachev era Soviet visors. Thank you for your time.

[DougD]

Dzerzhinsky,

If I am not mistaken, the cap you had was royal blue piped, and had naval buttons, had an embroidered cap badge. Its also had a crusher look to it that fit a very naval look.

Did you get the cap from me? If so, i have major problems with what you are describing here about what took place and what did not; If it was not from me then its not the cap I was thinking of and I am off the mark and apologize. If it was from me then I have no problem with you 'naming' me as the person you got it from, but have big problems with how you are describing the events and what is being implied.

The cap in question here has sky/light blue piping and was sold as naval aviation; as Willie states, naval officers of all regular navy branches (line, medical, coastal, aviation) used white piping.

DougD

[Dzerzhinsky]

Doug, no, I am not referring to any cap acquired from you. The cap in question was purchased from a known dealer at a miltary show many years ago well before knowing you. Trust me, if I had an issue with a hat purchased from you, I would confront you privately...Anyway, please forgive my rambling concerning this post... I understand the issue of light blue and royal blue piping. The hat I purchased at the show was in fact light blue and I was led to believe at a later period of time that it was issued to Coal Mining personnel, not KGB navy. It did have an embroidered navy badge and light blue piping, but I was not very experienced with KGB blue at the time. As a matter of fact, I doubt it even had naval buttons...Again, forgive the confusion and I will cease commenting on further posts. Doug, maybe you should just answer these questions before less experienced collectors like myself get invloved.

[DougD]

I sold a cap many years ago that was royal blue piped with a navy badge ( it was a navy cap with a very 'crusher' look to it); i am not sure where it ended up. I sold it to S.Caza, but then he sold it back though me and I am not sure where I sold it again. I thought you were refering to that cap and now that I know you were not, I apologize for jumping the gun. As for what happened to you, its pretty common for some of these dealers to throw on what they have around to a 'naked' cap, but its no excuse.

As for these caps, I wish I knew. Unlike the Germans who had differnt pipings for every branch and would not dream of repeating pipings (more or less), the Russians repeated ( same green for customs and Frontier troops, etc.).

The Under the Red Star site shows 2 pipings for these labor mining caps; light blue and royal blue; i can't say I am really into Gorbachev era labor caps, but it seems odd to me that this organization would use both pipings.?

Again, Dave, I apologize for jumping the gun, but without advertising, I do rely on my reputation for my 'business/hobby' and so when i thought it might be questioned I got very defensive.

Wish I could say more about these caps in question though.

dd

[Dzerzhinsky]

Doug, thank you for the post. The last thing I ever intended was incriminate you concerning a bogus hat. I have never had a problem with any piece of Soviet headgear purchased from you and I never will. Doug, you are the best authority on Soviet cloth, and I consider your word on the subject as gold...Regrettably, I forget my statements on a public forum such as this can cause unecessary consequences. Doug, I am sorry for any misunderstanding that my statements might have caused you.

[DougD]

Dave,

Please! Its my fault, i got defensive and jumped the gun; not really advertising, I rely so much on word of mouth that I really can get nuts. My bad!

As for cloth, I know alot, but I know alot of guys who would run me into the ground with this stuff (happily they mostly live in russia and i tend to buy from them so we are cool).

as for this cap, I would say go with Randal Stewart; the era of late cold war soviet caps is really his kingdom; i enjoy his site when i want to know about odd (usually civilian) caps I might see on E or other places.

My only question though is why would the coal mining industry use both light blue and royal blue for piping?

dd
ps-I know a guy who has an M1945(1947) Mining "Generals" (for lack of the proper title) Victory Parade style tunic in his collection...i have been trying to get it for about 2 years now, but no luck.

[Dzerzhinsky]

Doug, that is a good question. My only guess might be a difference in Soviet manufacturers based upon location. The other possibility is that the light blue piping represents a specific branch of the Coal Mining industry, like engineering for example. Likewise, it could distinguish a cadet or training position from a front line officer or NCO. Anyway, I am sure Randy might have some insight that we are neglecting...By the way, the Mining General tunic must be something to see. I can't imagine more than one kicking around. The owner must be very happy with it.