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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic. |
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05-17-2002, 05:41 PM | #1 |
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It seems logical that prices should be determined by supply and demand. If prices go up, no one will buy which means no one in Russia will be selling awards outside of Russia. I don't see much room for price increases..especially the common stuff below R3. The same problems have been going on with the antiques and collectibles business since it was born.
My parents deal in antiques..many times they get discouraged from buying at estate sales because dealers will bid the prices up until they are above what they are really worth. Dealers buy for their stores. They think that everyone will pay their outrageous prices and this isn't the case. They wind up stuck with alot of overpriced stuff and no where to go with it. Eventually they need to mark down the price and hope someone will see the markdown and think the dealer is broke or insane. Art
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05-17-2002, 10:23 PM | #2 |
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Christian,
That I agree on 100 %. I wish I had Red Stars with 6 digits for $17. This was a price that a fellow board member listed as a fair price for this piece. I can't sell them for that as I would loose money. It was just an example of the price problems I believed could crop up with this issues as I have no doubt that this member was able to buy an excellent piece for this price. It just isn't reflective of the market as a whole for me as a collector and a dealer. You got a great deal on the Glory tio and when you add the history behind it it makes it even better. I can research awards in the Russian Archives, and I research every group in my collection. The "story" behind the pieces and people make the groups priceless to me. Its my favorite part of collecting Soviet Orders and Medals. Take care, Ed |
05-17-2002, 11:52 PM | #3 |
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"the new Herefurth catalog"
>>I totally agree with Ed and Alexie regarding prices in Russia, I work in Azerbaijan and find most collectors here use the new Herefurth catalog as a starting level for their prices and are unwilling to accept less than it shows for orders or medals.<<
Ahhhhh, the dreaded Herefurth catalog. I can still remember when the first one came out. I was stationed in Germany from 91-97 and went to the flea market in Frankfurt almost every saturday to look at the Russian militaria. Immediately after the Herefurth catalog was published, the prices went through the roof. Almost every vendors had a copy of the catalog in their pocket to "justify" the prices of the medal/order...much much unhappiness If I had to do it all over again, I would have printed my own price guide and make a killing on sellling the price guide Dat |
05-18-2002, 03:12 AM | #4 |
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Guys
I have been redaing your comments with great interest. I would like to add my pennys worth if I may. As with other collecting medal from other countries, The Soviet stuff is relatively new on the market. Its only been avaiable for the past few years and thus there a a development phase that is required. I deal with a lot of "old time" collectors in SA and in the early days they collected type medals. ie one of each type and pricing was tottaly dependent on the differenet variations. Groups and the awardee meant nothing. This then changed and the awardee became important. So now they collected the same medals but to different units or ranks. This has changed again and now they collect groups of medals and the research is the most important factor. Price is dependent on the completeness of the group and also the reasons for the awards. If you log onto any of the big UK auction sites you will see that if a group is incomplete (I am talking non soviet awards) then the value falls away. And if the action for the award is good the prices are extremely high. I am starting to see this happen with Soviet awards. Time will come when there will be less interest in variations and more on the award citations. Varitaions are only a factor of timing and has very little to do with the deed. I would rather have a simple late issue red star with a fantastic citation for good bravery than a rare version rivet version for supplying soup under difficul conditions. I have made a rule that I only break under extreme conditions that I will will only buy complete groups. The exceptions I make is for good citations. I do this becuase I beleive Soviet award collecting will move towards this in the future. The value is in the deed not the medal. What do you guys think. regards Munroe |
05-18-2002, 03:17 PM | #5 |
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Art,
I totally agree with you if we were dealing in the real world, but we are dealing with Russia. Just remember the old saying about life in Russia, "without vodka it doesn't make any sense." Ed |
05-18-2002, 04:29 PM | #6 |
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Ahhhhh, the dreaded Herefurth catalog.....
I remember, in 2000 I was in Budapest, and a dealer asked $200 for an order of the October Revolution......AND he showed me another reference - the good book - sorry, the Mcdaniel bible - oops, you know.... |
05-19-2002, 09:10 PM | #7 |
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Ahhh.... Why can't we go back to the days of the original AVERS cataloge? Here are some price examples:
-Hero Star $450 -Hero of Socialist Labor Star $180 -Screwback Order of Lenin (type 1B in the cataloge) $200 -Order of Victory $2,000,000 (that's for Eugene) -Order of Ushakov 1st $5000 -Order of Nakhimov 1st $2500 -Suvorov 1st (on hanger) $2500 -Kutuzov 1st (on hanger) $2000 -Khmelnitsky 1st $1500 -Nevsky (on hanger) $100 -Red Banner RSFSR $100 -Red Banner (Soviet) Number "7" $300 -1928 Model Red Banner of Labor $500 -Nakhimov Medal $50 -Marshal of the Soviet Union Star $8000 -Sebastopol or Odessa medals, your choice- $8 each -And finally, the Belgrade medal... $5 This cataloge came out in 1993, but even at that time (when I bought the cataloge) the dealers on the market in Moscow weren't following those prices (unfortunately!) Back when I first bought the AVERS cataloge, I collected German medals, and even at that time, I would run across sellers on the market that would be asking simply insane prices on what they had (2 to 3 times what they were asking in the US) When I tried to deal with them, guess what came out... You got it right! The Herefurth cataloge! Oh well.... --Dave |
05-19-2002, 09:34 PM | #8 |
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Dave,
Avers prices were never real. It was written by dealers to be used as something to show to those, who wanted to sell the awards. Alexei |
05-19-2002, 09:53 PM | #9 |
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Gotta love the prices on those Red Banner #7's
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05-20-2002, 03:00 AM | #10 |
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DR. DIETRICH HERFURTH (Berlin)
Folks,
what do you have against the handsome small booklets of Dr. Herfurth? They have the right size, to have them always with you and you can see such wonderful items like a "Red Banner" # 7 & # 8. You find also all of the fantistic (SU-)made awards fo the Mongol People's Republic. The recent, 3rd, editon is from 1999 and I will give you some price quotations (retail prices at the dealers in the European Union!!!) in USD (just in the moment the EUR sells for about 0,92 USD): Kutuzov 2c = USD 1.400,- Suvorov 2c = USD 2.000,- Red Banner of Labour, 1. type (1928) = USD 3.000,- Red Banner of Labour, 2. type (1936) = USD 300,- Friendship = USD 190,- October Revolution = USD 140,- Lenin = USD 450,- HSL = USD 500,- Glory-Trio (inkl. Cavaliers booklet = USD 3.400,- (33 % + for doc.) So, what's so wrong with Herfurth's price system? Comrades, if I look at your dealer-websites, I can not find t h a t significant difference - or am I completly wrong?. Regards from Vienna |
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