M43/M47 shoulderboard buttons

[Slobo]

Some questions for the boards on rimmed (as typically seen with chinstraps and tunic buttons) vs. domed shoulder board buttons for the late war and postwar (to 1958) Red Army and NKVD/MVD, etc. officer tunics. Contemporary collection items (though you never know without close inspection if the buttons have been replaced) and period photos seem to sjggest both styles side by side in the late war years.

- Did one style of button precede the other in production?
- If so, round about which years did each enter service?
- When did each tend to leave service?
- For M1947 MVD/ security service era until 1958, was one style more prevalent than the other?

Hoping to get a better handle on this admittedly arcane issue for dating purposes and simple curiosity.

[toshik]

Let's make it clear that we are talking about 18 mm (US lend-lease version is 3/4" close to 19.1mm) yellow shoulder boards buttons for 1943+ shoulder boards.
They were originally supposed to be rimless but due to production difficulties in 1943-45 (only one high-power press on MOSSHTAMP factory was available) the simplified rimmed production was adopted. There was minimal production of 18mm rimless buttons in that period.
By the end of 1946 (with introduction of new shape of shoulder boards) rimless design was finally widely adopted.
So for the WW2 period rimmed buttons are correct, 1946+ are rimless. The back of the buttons of early production was not painted, always covered by rust by now with the exception of zink-plated US ones.
In late 1940-s they added MOSSHTAMP word and later 2 last digits of the production year.
Both soviet styles and US buttons pictured below.

[Slobo]

Thanks Toshik, very helpful. I assume that even after 1946, so many rimmed versions had been made and imported that they would still be common well into the 1950s for RKKA and MVD security forces, or am I wrong?

Also, did MVD/Militia and the other security organs go a different route with buttons in 1947+? As I dig into this topic I've recently seen some rank illustrations and references for MVD/militia buttons having just hammer an sickle and not within the RKKA star. They too appear rimless, at least in theory.

[toshik]

Originally Posted by Slobo

Thanks Toshik, very helpful. I assume that even after 1946, so many rimmed versions had been made and imported that they would still be common well into the 1950s for RKKA and MVD security forces, or am I wrong?

Also, did MVD/Militia and the other security organs go a different route with buttons in 1947+? As I dig into this topic I've recently seen some rank illustrations and references for MVD/militia buttons having just hammer an sickle and not within the RKKA star. They too appear rimless, at least in theory.

I won't go as far as saying that they were made, but definitely lots of them were in 1943-46. As soon as the new style was adopted the factories were ordered to discontinue old fashioned ones.
I've seen pictures of people wearing 1943-shaped officer shoulder boards dated late 1940. However I'd stick with rimmed ones on pre-1946 boards.
Yes MVD in late 1940-s switched to no-star on the buttons. Just larger hammer and sickle. It's hard for me to comment on those - not my specialty.
All pictures from my collection.

[kliment]

Originally Posted by Slobo

Thanks Toshik, very helpful. I assume that even after 1946, so many rimmed versions had been made and imported that they would still be common well into the 1950s for RKKA and MVD security forces, or am I wrong?

Also, did MVD/Militia and the other security organs go a different route with buttons in 1947+? As I dig into this topic I've recently seen some rank illustrations and references for MVD/militia buttons having just hammer an sickle and not within the RKKA star. They too appear rimless, at least in theory.

Hammer and sickle button without star is only (in the forties) for MVD vohr and militsa (before 47). This type of button is associated with administrative uniforms.