Stolen Awards.

[Mahdi]

... I guess I'm getting a little confused now. What exactly are "missing awards"? Are we referring to awards stolen from collections, awards stolen from veterans, awards stolen from museums, or awards that are parts of groups that we own and are mentined in the order booklet but are somewhere "out there"?

Personally, I think it would be a nice idea to start with a "database" for the latter option. This, however, requires a lot of technical work and contribution from collectors all over. How about a poll? How many of us are

1) interested in such a database, and
2) willing to help Art by sharing serial numbers of awards (and other info) from our collections

Maybe you can e-mail Art or PM him about this?

After all, if we keep hoping for such a database but don't work hard at getting one started, it will never exist.

Cheers!

[mcwirsk]

Guys

I think there are 2 parts to this. One is a alert section for known stolen items. and 2nd is the missing order/medal section.

Art, I am not a fundi on how complex this would be but I can tell you that in SA, our military medal soc runs such a database and you will be surprised how many matches are made. Its a small world out there.

I have heard stories of russian dealers breaking up the groups to sell individual items to various collectors. (don;t know how true this is) But I have matched up 2 groups from various dealers websites. And my field is limited.

I don't know if there would be a cost to this?

I would support this 100% and be prepared to give all my missing and surplus numbers in.

regards

[Art]

Mahdi, ideally the database could serve both purposes. However, I believe it has more potential as a place to search for missing pieces. We all have more holes in our award groups than awards which we know to have been stolen, but being able to alert the collecting community to a recently stolen item might prove useful.

We would have to come to a consensus regarding the format in which we enter the data. If I've got a missing Red Star number 1XXXXXX, what subject do I post under..how do I format the message body so when I'm looking for a missing award, I don't have to wade through a message body looking for the number? this would probably be a good task for a moderator to keep the database neat and tidy..any volunteers?

Munroe, it wouldn't be complex to start and there is no additional cost. I am only concerned on how much use we will actually get out of it. Let's hear from other members out there..

Art

[Doug]

I have a number of groups missing an item or two. I also have single orders in my collection that were once part of groups which are likely on the collectors market or are already in collector's hands. I, as Monroe has, have found orders missing from my groups from scanning dealer lists. I'm absoultely convinced that some dealers or middle-men purposely split up some of these groups in order to get more out of them. I'm also convinced that many orders just get separated in the mix because some of the dealers are handling such large volumes of material.

Would it be possible to set up a database that would link to this site where collectors could post the serial numbers of orders missing from their groups? It seems the primary data elements would be the order name, serial number, and the name of the person looking for it.

All the best,

Doug

[Art]

Doug,

Mahdi PM'd me and had a suggestion along a similar line. He suggested a form based entry, which would accept input such as awards wanted/available. When the person enters they would select the awards and enter the numbers (actually this could organized in 3 different drop down boxes, Titles, Orders and Medals..the person could select the appropriate award ) The more automated the process is, the more consistent the data will be which is crucial to keeping it organized and usable.

This type of work is a little over my head at the moment. While I can make forms with relative ease using Macromedia's Dreamweaver, I'm not skilled in tabulating results or formatting the sent data. Here are some thoughts out loud:

We would have to look at the process more. If I'm at the database, I'm either looking for a missing award, or I've got many awards with serial numbers that I want to enter into the database.

We would have to assume that someone entering the data cannot tell what the award is for the serial number he is entering. This means identification is a preliminary step that we have to have. This would require a drop down box or list or something with all the Russian names of the awards as you would see them stamped in an award book. The person can select the name that is in the stamped book, then enter the serial number.

Likewise, if I'm searching for the data, all I should need to do is enter the serial number. All serial numbers that match the one entered would pop-up, with the Russian name that was selected when it was entered.

Entry should be password protected, with a membership required similar to this forum. This would deter falsely/incorrectly entered data and provide the necessary means for contacting the data-enterer.

So how do we do it? anyone here skilled in Perl or CGI, or know someone who is? I'm willing to invest time and ( god forbid ) a little money into this project if we can get a weekend script hacker to work on this.

Art

[mcwirsk]

Art

That sounds fantastic. Sorry that I cannot help you build it with my limited skills.

Can I add my penny's worth?

Can we add a remarks column where you state is you are looking for the award, its a stolen items, if its part of a group, or its a surplus item.

regards from a raining South Africa

[Mahdi]

OK, I am not making any promises now, but if things go as I am planning then I may be able to do this form/database. If not, I would at least try to find someone to do it for free or a minimal amount of money.

I am also going to share some ideas/thoughts:

---why not have the same membership for the forum apply to the database, rather than making them two separate things? At least use the same ID/password.

---dealers, if any in this forum, should not post what they have, unless they are willing to keep track of what they sell so that the database is always accurate.

---there should be some way of modifying what has changed. In other words, there should be a way of modifying the records by the original sender. (or the administrator?)

---having the name in cyrillics will create some problems: people using different computers will see different things. I suggest asking the user to refer to the main site, find out the name of the award, and then choosing from a pull-down list of awards.

---each record should have: an order name, serial number, "wanted or available", and "contact" (similar to PM or e-mail)

---each user should be able to search for records by name, by "wanted or available", and by serial number.

[Art]

Guys,

Mahdi, your offer is appreciated..all of the members thank you. Not only does Mahdi put his time into this site, but his class work at school keeps him busy as it is. As it stands now, I submitted a project outline to a group of freelance programmers. What I will do is pay for the basic project, then if I see alot of good things happen, and there is some good buzz around about what we are doing, who knows what else I will implement. But at least we are going to do something that has never been done before! It is going to be interesting to say the least. Just be ready to start entering those award numbers..

What I might do is place banners on this and only this part of the website, just to help generate traffic. All of the members will have to do their part to get anyone with a serial numbered soviet award to enter their information. More participation equals more results and vice versa.

A few things I have decided upon because of budget constraints:

There will be no text input, the only input it will accept are the award names (from a selectable list) and serial numbers. This is to keep it fast, and cheap. Mahdi, your concern over possible problems with Cyrillic is noted. I will talk to the programmer about that.

Membership..I believe it will be less expensive to have a separate membership than to integrate the memberships from the forum. Again, I will inquire with the programmers.

Regarding stolen awards..might be to expensive to code this into the database for the small amount of entry it will receive. What I will do is if anyone knows of awards that have been stolen, I will make a forum wide announcement ( all the announcements stay at the top of each forum group ) then I will post the message in the appropriate forum with the subject line STOLEN: with the Order name and serial number.

It would be up to the person who receives a hit to do the foot-work of tracking the award from there. If the person who posted it no longer has it, then they may be able to tell who has it now. Maybe in the future this may change.

I've got to think bare bones here everyone..the essentials are what we are going to get in the beginning. If it takes off, who knows.

Art

[mcwirsk]

Hello Guys

Sorry to push but is anything happening on this project. Can I help in anyway?

regards

Munroe

[Art]

Munroe,

Glad you asked..The bidding for the project ends on April 28th. All I will have to do then is decide what programmer will get the job. Several new ideas have evolved, here they are.

I think if I can't integrate forum membership with the awards database membership what I will do is make a forum group dedicated to members only. This will ensure that those entering will be registered members of the forum. There will be a way to access the database within the members-only forum.

I am going to try and incorporate the "stolen" option within the variable fields.

After the bidding and I pick the programmer, I'll try to keep you guys up to date on new stuff.

Art