Original or fake? General visor cap.

[Durandal]

Yup, I'm aware of the "Рост" and "Размер". Also that ЦЭПК is primarily a manufacturer which I kinda stated, "...it seems they manufactured the uniforms from scratch..." also the info in the links in my previous post.

I've done some more reading, and it seems that while most uniforms were made in clothing factories, the majority of uniforms for ranks from Major General to Marshal of the Soviet Union were tailor-made. As opposed to "custom tailored" meaning "made to fit each general accordingly as requested while still following uniform regulations." as I've stated earlier, what I think is more accurate is that the uniforms were "tailored instead of being manufactured in big industrial clothing factory complexes" like the others below the majority of Major and up or the minority of them.

But I'd like to know more, if you could share anything. Please! :)

[Lapa]

Durandal,

Originally Posted by Durandal

Yup, I'm aware of the "Рост" and "Размер". Also that ЦЭПК is primarily a manufacturer which I kinda stated, "...it seems they manufactured the uniforms from scratch..." also the info in the links in my previous post...

As far as I understand the English language, "it seems" imfers that the author is not certain of the fact he is stating. In the case of ЦЭПК, it does not seem, it is certain, that the bulk of their activity was, and probably still is, the manufacture of uniforms.

Originally Posted by Durandal

...I've done some more reading, and it seems that while most uniforms were made in clothing factories, the majority of uniforms for ranks from Major General to Marshal of the Soviet Union were tailor-made. As opposed to "custom tailored" meaning "made to fit each general accordingly as requested while still following uniform regulations." as I've stated earlier, what I think is more accurate is that the uniforms were "tailored instead of being manufactured in big industrial clothing factory complexes" like the others below the majority of Major and up or the minority of them...

Interesting statement. Can you please share your sources, as they may provide us with additional, little or unknown, information.
Now, if, as you state, most general uniforms (I am purposedly leaving Marshals out for the time being) were tailor-made, how come almost all of them come with a factory label? I'va had several times the opportunity to purchase brand-new, never issued general uniforms manufactured in the 1970's and 1980. They cam with their original label which indicated "Рост" and "Размер", therefore being "standard" issues and not the name of the person for whom it was supposedly tailored.

Marc

[charlet]

hello,

IMHO the uniforms were issued from the TSEPK factory and sometimes they were afterwards custom-tailored ONLY on private initiative by the owner. So the factory fabrication remains the rule, and the tailoring the -seldom- exception.

[Durandal]

In the case of ЦЭПК, it does not seem, it is certain, that the bulk of their activity was, and probably still is, the manufacture of uniforms.

I usually use the word "seem" to politely state a claim whilst leaving it open to discussion. It is certain to you, sure. But not as certain to me - uniforms are a new thing for me, I dare not make concrete claims. :/

My quoted words above were sourced from a book (image attached). Its claims fit the other things I've read in Under the Red Star as well as the other links in my older post. The book has a scanned image of supposed uniform guideline sketches for tailors. If you're interested, I will show them. Of course, these are are but only written by western collectors. I've not checked their sources though in the book under references there is a "USSR Ministry of Defence uniform tailoring guide" which I cannot find any information on, at least in english.

As for the factory labels, I do not know.

IMHO the uniforms were issued from the TSEPK factory and sometimes they were afterwards custom-tailored ONLY on private initiative by the owner. So the factory fabrication remains the rule, and the tailoring the -seldom- exception.

To add to this theory, maybe if tailored, the procedures and standards may differ from what is known? But I have no knowledge on the subject, it's just a thought. I do not claim to know anything. Will need more sources and information to clear things up.

This discussion feels to be leading up to an argument which is not what I have in mind at all. Please provide any sources or personal experiences to share so I could form more clarity on the subject to help dispel this "myth" if it is so. I am after all, here to learn.

With that said, thank you everyone, for all the input so far. It's much appreciated. :)

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by Durandal

...The book has a scanned image of supposed uniform guideline sketches for tailors.(...)I've not checked their sources though in the book under references there is a "USSR Ministry of Defence uniform tailoring guide" which I cannot find any information on, at least in english.

Durandal,

It sounds like you are talking about this book (1963 version) :D

Marc

[Durandal]

Do you have the book? What does it say on the matter?

[charlet]

hello, I do have the book. The author make a big work to expose precisely the regulations from various periods, mainly 1955 up to 1991, but does not really change focus. It is based on a private collection, and does not enlarge to others pieces from others collections, museum,s photographic sources. And it does not rely enough on russian sources.
It show interesting scarce pieces like M1955 service uniforms, but there're various mistakes (the author was certainly limited to a sharp range of pieces to show) like M1955 general uniforms with 1980ies visor caps... some details I've seen in real life which could have been interesting to show is for example the 1954 wave green embrodied great parade general jacket with the metallic hangers in the back for the embrodied belt, slightly different from the parade jacket conceived to show only ribbon bars...

about my "opinion" about tailoring and TSEPK factory, like you I prefer not to claim and stay prudent, as there're more experienced collectors than me on this forum. My opinion comes from an observation, and I came to the same conclusion that Lapa. The only tailored jackets were exceptions.

[grenouillet]

hello i know this book it's realy interesting

[Durandal]

I need more sources, guys. Anything about that "USSR Ministry of Defence uniform tailoring guide"? I'm kinda stuck in between.

[charlet]

Originally Posted by Durandal

I need more sources, guys. Anything about that "USSR Ministry of Defence uniform tailoring guide"? I'm kinda stuck in between.

a book easy to find in any Wall-mart of course...