The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum  
  • Serial Numbers Database 2.0
Enter Here

vBClassified Featured Listings
Seeking following Soviet campaign medals for ..,
Echoes of War
Echoes of War

Go Back   The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum > Soviet Awards Forums > Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics > Soviet Uniforms, Hats And Insignia

Soviet Uniforms, Hats And Insignia For all topics concerning uniforms, hats, insignia (such as rank, branch of service and cap devices), shoulderboards, sleeve patches and other accoutrements.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2007, 11:44 AM   #1
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
Warning: Reproductions!

OK, I have always wondered (though i have been suspicious) about the uniforms of a certain E dealer. I will not come out and say who, but you all know who it is (did i mention last year I had a great trip to London where I got to ride a DOUBLEDECKER bus, and even got to visit alot of AUCTIONS). Anyway, I'll refer to the original E sellers as "them" or "they" to be fair : )

Anyway, the pics they use on E raise alot of red flags, but I have never been able to actually handle any uniforms from "them". I have always thought they mixed real and fake items; I was wrong and will explain below.

Recently though I have been contacted by 2 collectors who have asked me to sell uniforms they have bought from "them". In the first instance the collector did not send me the uniforms for inspection, but this time I was able to handle them. I will not show full shots of the uniforms, but will only use detail shots.

I am not sure if these collectors are selling because they have found "issues" with these uniforms or simply need money. I will not make a judgment on that. However, what it does mean is the following: uniforms from "them" are now showing up from buyers; i.e. they are becoming second generation sales. Someone who would be scared off from buying a high end uniform on E (as anyone should) might buy from another collector, not knowing where the uniform is from. It also means that there are other outlets for these uniforms. I would love to see what shows up at the SOS, but I will have to rely on my partner Dave to check things out.

Now, to the uniforms.....they are FAKE. No mixing (other than postwar pants), just bad items....these would not really fool an established collector, but I could see them fooling a novice.

What to look for: The uniforms all seem to share the following:

1. "they" fake easy to fake uniforms; no M1945 generals, but rather field pullovers, M1940, 43, etc. Higher ranks, but uniforms that do not require a huge amount of embroidered detail, etc.

2. They are "sets"; sets are very tough to find, and for officers and EMs almost never found. Yet, "they" always have sets.

3. Incorrect ,material on both caps and tunics / pullovers. Same for the caps, as soon as you feel one you can tell.

4. STAMPS STAMPS STAMPS! I have sold a huge number of uniforms and the number of real, surviving WAR TIME stamps I could count on my finders and toes; "they" have stamps on EVERY item; they are clear, detailed, bright and easy to read. Again, all to make the novice feel like he got a good wartime uniform.

5. Overaged parts; like buttons that are caked with dirt on tunics with NO wear; caps with cap buttons that have have "wear and rust" on hats with NO wear. They are still new at this and they seem to either not age something (they almost glow!) or overage them.

I'll try to explain more with photos (am home today due to the ice storm, so i have the time for this). My camera is not great though.

I would really like to hear from others and would love to see more examples of uniforms bought from "them" if they are willing to share.

DougD
Moderator
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-14-2007, 12:03 PM   #2
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
caps

OK, lets start with caps.

First, they all seem to have this high, "German like" peak (was the forger a previous german forger?).

Here are three caps from "them"; not the identical peaks; the third cap has the wire taken out of it to look a bit different but it is the same identical construction, material, etc, as the other 2.

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DDAhats1.jpg (27.9 KB, 270 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:08 PM   #3
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
caps

Lets look at some of the details of the caps:

Here is the "NKVD" officers cap:

Note the high peak, the very poor quality sweatliner with no wear, the brim with no wear, the buttons with heavy rust ( though no rust marks on cap), the very thin and incorrect cap badge pins.

Note the nice and bright "wartime" stamps.

As soon as I had the cap in my hands I knew it was bad; if you have handled real ones the feel of the repro is obvious.

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DDANKVDcap.jpg (25.5 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg buttonhat1.jpg (33.5 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg DDANKVDcapin.jpg (24.3 KB, 185 views)
File Type: jpg inhat2.jpg (24.8 KB, 131 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:12 PM   #4
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
caps II

Here is the "NKVD Frontier Troops" cap. Note that it has the same tell tale signs as the "NKVD" officers cap.

1. the cheap and poorly made sweatliner
2. the high peak
3. the rusted buttons on a pristine cap
4. the incorrect material (you have to feel it really)
5. The thin repro cap badge prongs
6. the "wartime" stamp

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DDABGcap.jpg (25.8 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg inhat3.jpg (31.0 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg inhat4.jpg (24.5 KB, 104 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:22 PM   #5
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
uniforms

Now lets look at uniforms. Again, I will try to point out details using this pre-43 "NKVD Frontier Troops" uniform.

1. the repro, non aged buttons; made to look WWII, but of low quality.
2.the low quality colalr tabs with insignia that does not fit well, and is pin back; avoid pin back! Not all pin back is fake, but its a bad sign.
3.Overly aged branch insignia on tunic with NO wear.
4.note the collar hooks with NO wear.
5.pullover of wrong, postwar, material
6. and of course, the nice bright stamp with everything but the name of the guy who made it!

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DDAbgtunic1.jpg (41.7 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg DDAtunic2.jpg (46.8 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg DDAcollar.jpg (40.5 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg DDAbutton.jpg (41.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: jpg DDAbuttons2.jpg (47.5 KB, 68 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:24 PM   #6
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
stamp!

The ultimate sign of "them". The super-stamp! Nice clear, perfectly readable!
DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stamp1.jpg (44.9 KB, 168 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:35 PM   #7
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
M1943 uniforms

Faking for "them" is not limited to pre-43 uniforms; here are detailed shots from an M1943 NKGB field officer.

The buttons are the same as on the pre-43 "NKVD Frontier Troops" uniform, but covered with modern field green paint to make them look old.

The material is also very postwar for the pullover.

"They" are even inventing new places to put stamps! This pullover has the nice bright stamps ont he back of the repro boards!Note the incorrect backing to the boards as well, a clear sign of very recent manufacture.

"They" also like to add embroidered order holes to the tunic/pullover. These are very rare on REAL uniforms, but seem to show up to add "authenticity".

Also, in order to make it a better "set" fake wound strpes have been added!

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg badboards2.JPG (23.7 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg badboards.JPG (46.5 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg fldbuttons.JPG (44.4 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg Holes.JPG (41.4 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg stripes.JPG (28.5 KB, 63 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:36 PM   #8
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
buttons 3

Here are sleeve buttons from a third tunic, a grey 1937 "NKVD Officer"; not that there is NO wear on the sleeve and yet the buttons have so much dirt they looked like they were buried ( they were, trust me!). This is called overaging.

DougD
Attached Images
File Type: jpg buttons4.JPG (40.2 KB, 89 views)
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:39 PM   #9
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
thread

Well, i have 'stuck' this thread s that others can add to it and ask questions, etc. I really intend for this thread NOT to deal with "E-bay Jokes" and junk and will delete any posts about such (or i'll move them).

What I am looking for here are good quality fakes designed to fool collectors, not stuff sold to tourists. I'd really like to hear from others.

DougD
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 12:58 PM   #10
DougD
Senior Member
 
DougD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
means nothing

This is on the sellers listings:

"GUARANTEED ORIGINAL WWII ISSUE. SEE MY OTHER AUCTIONS FOR SIMILAR ITEMS.GUARANTEED TO BE AUTHENTIC ITEM FOR LIFE."

Ha! What a joke; unless the seller agrees he sold you a fake, i would not count on getting your money back.

Lets really try to put the word out there so collectors do not get burned. Collectors who get burned tend to drop collecting, and thats bad for all of us.

DougD
Moderator - Cloth
DougD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repro Postwar Generals Caps Laurent Army Uniforms And Insignia 17 02-21-2011 12:39 AM


Soviet USSR Stalin “Death Sentence” 20 Kopek Silver Coin for Coin Collecting picture

Soviet USSR Stalin “Death Sentence” 20 Kopek Silver Coin for Coin Collecting

$24.99



Soviet Russia USSR WW2 Metal Tank Ashtray~ Missing Tank Part picture

Soviet Russia USSR WW2 Metal Tank Ashtray~ Missing Tank Part

$20.00



Prussia 1 Silber Groschen 1822 A Friedrich Wilhelm III COIN 2pcs. picture

Prussia 1 Silber Groschen 1822 A Friedrich Wilhelm III COIN 2pcs.

$44.00



1892 RUSSIA - Empire - Alexander III - Silver Rouble АГ picture

1892 RUSSIA - Empire - Alexander III - Silver Rouble АГ

$199.00



Mosin Nagant Buttplate, M91-30, M44, M38 picture

Mosin Nagant Buttplate, M91-30, M44, M38

$9.50



Patch National Guard Of Russia OMON Original picture

Patch National Guard Of Russia OMON Original

$15.00



USSR Soviet Lenin 100th Anniversary Medal picture

USSR Soviet Lenin 100th Anniversary Medal

$8.99



Russia WW 2 picture

Russia WW 2

$10.00



Russian Army Patch Russia Ukraine #80 picture

Russian Army Patch Russia Ukraine #80

$18.00



USSR SOVIET UNION RUSSIA RUSSIAN CCCP ORDER OF VICTORY SIEGESORDEN WW2 Medal picture

USSR SOVIET UNION RUSSIA RUSSIAN CCCP ORDER OF VICTORY SIEGESORDEN WW2 Medal

$129.00




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2011 Arthur G. Bates III