Rare and Unusual M1945 VP General

[DougD]

Marc allowed me to use these pics of a uniform he is selling. I am not 100% sure what it is, so I wanted to start this thread.

There are a few possibilites here:

1. Its one of the original styles tried when the VP was being developed in 1945, but they decided to stay with the traditional embroidery. The examples could have been used (as would seem to be shown here) or stored.

2. Its an experimental varient from 1946/1947. I am not sure why, just a year after it came out, they would be doing heavy modifications to the M1945, but then never really change anything. (Marc: did you get the 1946/47 idea from a book, article, the buttons, other collector? i am not saying its wrong, but I would like to know for my own info if there is an article or something I missed.)

3. Its a variation that first came out; they were produced in very limited number. Very possible (Marc: you said you saw a photo of another of these; was it in a collection, or was it an issue shot, showing a general in wear with it?).

My bet is #3. If the photo that Marc saw was of this style in wear, along with the fact that this uniform shows some wear (order marks, etc), makes me think it saw actual use. Experimental / prototypes never made it out of the design process, so if it was issued it would be a "varient" (very rare) but not an experimental or prototype.

I have 10 years in dealing with M1945 generals uniforms, and have had and /or sold about 100 of them in all (or close to it). I have only seen this embroidery on one ofther VP generals item (a cap) and I chalked it up to a variation at the time.

Marc: can you do some interior shots? Also, the buttons; are they the 1946 style or the 1940 style and if they are the 1940 style do they have green field paint on the back.

DougD

[Lapa]

Doug,

The 1946/7 bit comes from the previous owner. When I got this uniform, he explained that this was a variety of embroidery that had been proposed just after then end of the war in an attempt to lower their cost of production. But, as was fairly usual then (and still is today), the "lower cost" item ended up costing as much as the original while not improving markedly the looks. So, in the end, it was decided to stay with the original M45 pattern.

Buttons are the regular general buttons with 11 ribbons (see pic).

I have seen once, but for the life of me I can't remember where, a picture of one of these from a collection.

Marc

[Lapa]

Some pics of the inside

[Nack]

I would think that the uniform could be both "experimental" and used -- this is a high-quality uniform, and even if the modifications weren't put into mass production, it still looks like the other M45 VP uniforms so why not use it? I think this actually looks better than the standard kind -- the extra space between the leaves makes them stand out better. :thumbsup

[DougD]

Well, the definition of the experimental uniform or uniform part is one that really did not get past the design process into use. This uniform would more be a 'limited run' uniform; they tried some, issued them, but did not go with them; this happened with helmets a few times.

I like the design as well.

DougD

[Nack]

Originally Posted by DougD

Well, the definition of the experimental uniform or uniform part is one that really did not get past the design process into use. This uniform would more be a 'limited run' uniform; they tried some, issued them, but did not go with them; this happened with helmets a few times.

I like the design as well.

DougD

Ah, ok, I understand the distinction. Thanks. :)

[Lapa]

...This uniform would more be a 'limited run' uniform...

Doug,

I think you found the right term for it :thumbsup

Marc

[Lapa]

Guys,

Our member Grenouillet (huge thanks to him) gave me yesterday a great picture of a Soviet general wearing this very specific type of uniform; Enjoy :thumbsup

Marc

[DougD]

Great photo! Is it from a book?

The embroidery on the uniform is very similar in design; however, i do not think the uniform in this photo is army...the uniform in my opinion is black (even in a black and white photo it is darker than regular generals VP uniforms), which would make it a Transport Generals uniform (black with magenta piping; there are 2 examples in Sinclair/Drabik) circa 1947

DougD

[DougD]

Here is a cap with the matching odd embroidery; its been floating on E for about 6 months. wish someone would re-unite it with this uniform!

DougD