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The Researchers' Corner Research; the mysterious process which slowly sweeps away the passage of time to reveal the unique history within every award and unit.

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Old 10-11-2002, 03:34 AM   #1
otlichnik
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Researching Red Army/Navy Units

There was a posting recently on the Orders forum, about an Order of Glory issued to a soldier in the 19th Army, asking for info on this unit. While I posted some comments there, I though I would take this opportunity to make a general posting about researching Red Army units in the GPW era.

Unfortunately, the Red Army is one of the hardest armies of WWII to research. It is extremely easy to research the history of almost any unit in a Western army (US, UK, Canadian) or in the German army. Many sources give info on Divisions and it is usually easy to find info on lower units. For example, you can easily track almost every US regiment with the official US Army histories and you can even track every company of Canadian armoured units in the war. Red Army units are another story entirely. Keeping full track of anything below the level of Army (i.e. corps and divisions) is quite difficult unless you find the few specialized sources.

The best non-primary source was, until the last ten years or so, the book “Red Army Order of Battle” by Poirier and Connor. This small hardcover book attempts to list all Red Army units from Front down to Division with information about their formation, combat history, commander and subordinate units. It is a remarkable work representing a huge amount of labour. The authors combed many sources for data. While out of print now it is still fairly easy to find and is a good beginning reference. However, it has substantial problems as it was made BEFORE access to the Soviet archives and military libraries was possible.

The Poirier and Conner book uses three main sources of information - all flawed. First, and primarily, they used the German army wartime records - the OKW (Oberkommando des Wehrmacht) diaries. Obviously, anything that attempts to examine an army from the perspective of its enemy during a time of war will be flawed. David Glantz has shown in his various books and papers the errors made by the Germans during the war. They “lost” or never knew of many Soviet divisions and even entire armies. At the beginning of the war they over-estimated the number of infantry faced by AG Centre by around 100% and under-estimated the number of tanks by half. The OKW diaries are themselves available in any really good library. I have used them myself - they are good for info on the German army but not for reliable info on the Red Army.

The second source the authors used were the post-war records of the US and UK militaries. Unfortunately, these are 99% based on captured German army records and on interrogations of German army personnel. Thus they are in reality source #1 one all over again. The final source used by the authors were post-war Soviet military publications in the “public domain” - the Great Military Encyclopedia and the journals Military-Historical Journal (VIZh) and Military Thought (VM) - also all available at any really good library. These were obviously limited in what they said as they were for the public - also they either provide only broad overviews (encycopedia) or detailed info but on small operations (VIZh). In other words coverage was spotty and piecemeal.

So, what to do for better and more reliable info??

The best option is the official Red Army record of unit histories. This is available in two forms - either in very expensive (well over $1000) microfilm of poor copies of Russian language docs - or in the English language works compiled by Charles Sharp and sold by Naf****** Press. To date there are about 11 volumes (selling for about $20-25 each) covering the Red Army. This provides excellent and official information but has some gaps or holes. First, the Russian work is concerned with the formative and structural history of the units - when and where formed/re-formed, what units were subordinate and how their structure changed. They do not contain the official combat record. They d contain the basic combat record but not necessarily every operation the unit was involved in. Second, they are for (some) Corps, (almost all) Divisions and (most) Brigades only. There is no info on Fronts, Armies or infantry Corps. There is no info on air force units. But if you want info on any division and any special (armour, arty, etc.) Corps or Brigade these are the best source.

Battle history of Fronts, Armies and even some Divisions can be traced from some good secondary sources. The two volumes “Road to Stalingrad” and “Road to Berlin” by the recently deceased John Erickson are very good. Books by David Glantz are even better - he has had un-parallelled access to Soviet archives. It takes a while but through indexes and maps in these books you can determine what almost all of these larger units were up to almost all of the time.

There are also some Russian language official Red Army sources. Unfortunately these are very rare and hard to find even if someone can use a Russian text. There are a variety of General Staff studies on the formations of units during the early part of the war. The very rare Komandirovanie (Commanders) gives names of unit commanders during the war. Oslobozhdenie Gorodov (the Liberation of Towns) gives units and commanders cited for liberation of specific towns.

I have done detailed research into several Red Army units. In some cases no more than a few pages is possible but in other cases I have been able to put together ten or more pages on a particular unit. However, for histories this size it is an extremely long and complex process. Even if someone had all the sources they are not simply indexed by unit. Research goes back and forth from unit, to higher unit, to operations, back to units, commanders, etc. Sometimes you can get lucky and find detailed reports on a battle or operation in which the unit in question fought - thus adding much detailed info.

In conclusion, with time, patience, research skills and access to a good library, good sources or good contacts it is possible to put together a good detailed study of a Red Army unit.

Shawn
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Old 10-11-2002, 05:04 AM   #2
McLenin
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Excellent post Shawn
I agree that the Poirier and Conner book is incomplete but most of the time it is reasonably accurate. Information I have got from groups that have been researched usually ties in with what is written in this book, but I do have a few groups to divisions which P&C just list as "known to have existed", but for the price (usually under $30) it is a great resource. I have the Charles Sharp books too. These are great as they mention a lot of units not mentioned by P&C, but quite expensive. But I have yet to find any better English language resources so these (to me) are essential.

Now, if the Forum members were to use these references as a base and add to them from all the collated research we have got over the years we could produce an excellent Red Army Order of Battle, far better than the German High Command ever knew about! :D

... however I am not volunteering! How about you Ed? ;)

bye for now

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Old 10-11-2002, 09:09 AM   #3
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I would love to be able to piece things together from the research but I have a big problem with finding a detailed and accurate map. In most citations they mention small villages or towns as reference points and I have no way of knowing where they are. This makes it difficult to trace where the unit traveled to any great degree.

Its also difficult to trace many Red Army units from the war's beginning to end because of the caotic state of the early years of the war. Units were vaporized in 1941 only to be reformed later in a different place. Armored units were in a constate of reorganization as Stavka applied "leasons learned" to make this an effective force. This can cause a lot of gray hairs and I have too many of them all ready.;)

Thanks for the great posts!

Ed
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Old 10-11-2002, 09:28 AM   #4
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I agree that 1941 is a problem. Many units got totally snuffed - records and all - and Moscow had no idea where they were for the last while. The situation was similar on the german side at the very end. From around 25 April 1945 on the OKW dairy goes blank. The German high command had no idea what was going on. I have several staff maps from the 4th Guards Tank Army, Berlin Operation, and researching which German units they faced at the very end was basically impossible.

I find Sharpe covers armour pretty well even with the constant changes.

On finding small places, I have found two solutions. The modern CD-ROM atlases are not bad for searching. Encarta has a spell-matcher to find similar names. However, the better solution is to try to follow the chain of command up - to try to find out what corps and army a division was in - and then to track the unit at that level - at least you can usually find out within a small area where it was.


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Old 10-11-2002, 12:56 PM   #5
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Order of Battle - Maps

http://www.genstab.ru/maps_ww2_eur.htm
Excellent source for maps, and much of other info
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Old 10-11-2002, 01:46 PM   #6
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42nd rifles infantery

Hi
Can anyone help me to find out where the 42nd rifles infantery division were active during the war.
Best
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Old 10-13-2002, 03:04 PM   #7
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From Poirier and Conner

Units: 44, 455, 459 Rifle, 472 Artillery regiments
- existed in 1931
- raised Terijok, Archangelsk military district, Feb 1940
- Finnish war, Mar 1940
- Western special military district w/28 Riflle Corps, 4 Army, June 1941
- Defended Brest Fortress w/4 Army, July 1941
- 2nd formation raised Volsk, Volga militray diistrict, Jan 1942
- RVGK w/66 Army, Aug 1942
- Smolensk, Sep 1943
- Lenino (near Mogilev) w/33 Army, Oct 1943
- Belorussia w/33 Army, May 1944
- Mogilev w/69 Rifle corps, 49 Army, June 1944
- Grodno, July 1944
- Danzig area w/49 Army, Mar 1945
- Crivitz, Germany w/5 Mechanized Army, July 1946
- "Smolensk, Grodno, Kalinin," Red Banner

hope that helps

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Old 10-13-2002, 05:00 PM   #8
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Thanks a lot

Thamks a lot. Did the 42nd rifles go to all these places?
Best wishes
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Old 10-18-2002, 03:55 AM   #9
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What that list means is that scholars without access to official Russian archives but with access to German and Wetsern archives have found records of the division being at each of those battles.

The book is pretty accurate so it is likely they were at them all. Now the battles are sometimes very large so they might not actually hit the town in question - but they were close.

Here is some further information and corrections about the 42 Rifle Division. As I have said before Poirier and Connor is good but not perfect. This info comes from Sharp’s Soviet OBs, Glantz and some Russian books.

Formed in 1936 in the Ukraine. If there was a unit on the books in 1931 it was deleted shortly after.

Started the war in the Western Military District. It also had the 17th Howitzer Regiment, the 393rd Anti-Aircraft Battalion and the 158th Truck Battalion. It was at Brest where 1/3 of the division was surrounded in the fortress an destroyed. It retreated to Minsk and had only 4000 men on 5/VII/1941, half of whom were recently called-up reservists. In July, north of Gomel, it tried a flank counter-attack against the German 2nd Panzer Group. It suffered huge losses and retreated to Kiev where it was surrounded and destroyed.

The second formation was formed on 27/XII/1941 and had the same units with the addition of the 4th Anti-Tank Battalion. From IV/42 to IV/43 it was with the 49th Army (Western Front) not the 66th Army. In IV/43 it was sent to the 33rd Army. After Mogilev it fought to the Dniepr-Orsha line.

During Operation Bagration in July 1944 it formed its own mobile group with the 3rd Battalion, 455th Rifle Regiment mounted in all of the division’s supply vehicles and reinforced with the anti-tank battalion’s 45mm guns, one 76mm gun battalion of the artillery regiment and a sapper company. They crossed the Basia river and seized the village of Chernevka. For this feat they were awarded the Order of Kutuzov II on 25/VII/1944. The ended the war on the Elbe river west of Berlin.

Commanders of the 42nd Rifle Division

1st Formation
31/I/1941 Kombrig (Major-General on 4/VI/1940) I.S. Lazarenko
24/VII/1941 Col. M.D. Grishin

2nd Formation
27/XII/1941 Col. S.L. Sadovskiy
15/VI/1942 Col. (Major-Gen. on 14/II/1943) N.N. Multan
27/XI/1943 Col. G.G. Russkov
7/I/1944 Lt.Col. S.M. Moiseyenkov
24/I/1944 Col. A.I. Slits
22/III/1944 Col. S.I. Stanovskiy
30/III/1944 Col. A.I. Slits
31/X/1944 Col. N.S. Pachkov
17/IV/1945 Col. S.K. Isakov
28/IV/1945 Col. G.I. Emelyanenko
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Old 10-18-2002, 06:38 PM   #10
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Question: 12th Special Brigade (naval Infantry)

I am interested to find out if anyone has any information on the 12th Special Brigade (naval infantry) of the Northern Fleet. Particularly during the 1941-42 timeframe.

I have a medal group to a Col Fyodor Savchenko, who served as a Battalion Commander of the 12th Special Brigade. Through research, I was able to determine that he received is first Order of the Red Banner (#22288) on 08 Nov 1941 while serving as Battalion Commander.

Since this is a naval group, research has been limited...and I can't get the citations. I have limited materials on naval ground units during WW2. I am wondering if anyone has any reference background on this unit and its role during this time.

Thanks! Dan
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