Red Banner. - Page 14

Dat Nguyen · 11-02-2004, 04:29 PM

OK here's one for the scrutiny of the forum members. My I.B.A. is on so I am ready for your comments on this Order of the Red Banner Type 3, 3rd award, with a unique serial number of 6666.

v/r
Dat

Lapa · 11-02-2004, 05:38 PM

Hi Dat,

It's pretty difficult to make an informed judgement with such small scans. If you can post larger/more detailed scans, that would help.

Marc

Tal Inbar · 11-13-2004, 06:53 AM

Please look at this order. The seller's words:

"RARE RUSSIAN SOVIET ORDER OF THE RED BANNER,

The order contain manufacturer changed order suspension ring and mark "Monetnij dvor" on reverse below of the order and serial number 82163. 90% original finish. "

Front view:

Reverese. Note the serial number and the center of the order.

***desantnik*** · 11-13-2004, 08:48 AM

Your piece falls within the normal serial # range 80.000-84.000 for similarly done pieces, presumably done at the mint to comply with the new awarding regulations and convert screwbacks to suspension red banners. Your photos aren't the best, but it doesn't look tampered with. The blow-up you did of the suspension ring looks a little unusual (no wear, patina, and gold-plated?), but without handling it, IMHO it's probably OK.

Nota Bene · 11-13-2004, 05:24 PM

Tal,

I am also guessing it's OK, just a little unusual. I believe they used lead solder to attach the loop, and it should be darker than the silver medal itself unlike on this scan. Apparently most of those pieces were converted before the screwpost was atached, but I have also seen one with clear indication that the screwpost was attached and later removed.

BTW, Russian collectors call this conversion "dove-tail".

Alexei

Eugene · 11-19-2004, 05:41 PM

This "dove tail" - lastockin xvost - is quite rare variation. This one on Ebay is fake. The part itself as well as the loop attached to the order was very thin. Almost twise thinner that on the scan. It's very likely they cut out and attached the piece from the original suspension Red Banner to make this variation.

HuliganRS · 11-19-2004, 07:40 PM

The Mint Mark is very wrong too!!!

Rusty.

Nota Bene · 11-20-2004, 02:28 PM

Eugene,

I am not sure I understand, do you mean that the scan was doctored?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene

The part itself as well as the loop attached to the order was very thin. Almost twise thinner that on the scan.

Alexei

Nota Bene · 11-20-2004, 02:32 PM

Rusty,

Maybe I can't see all the details on my monitor (or need to clean it more often :)), but could you please explain. I thought the correct MM for this variation was stamped with two stamps in one line, could be slightly curved or not.

Alexei

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuliganRS

The Mint Mark is very wrong too!!!

Rusty.

Eugene · 11-20-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Eugene,

I am not sure I understand, do you mean that the scan was doctored?

Alexei

The original "dove tail" orders had much thinner loop. This fake on Ebay was made from regular suspension RB.

11-13-2004, 05:24 PM	#135
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Tal, I am also guessing it's OK, just a little unusual. I believe they used lead solder to attach the loop, and it should be darker than the silver medal itself unlike on this scan. Apparently most of those pieces were converted before the screwpost was atached, but I have also seen one with clear indication that the screwpost was attached and later removed. BTW, Russian collectors call this conversion "dove-tail". Alexei Last edited by Nota Bene; 11-13-2004 at 05:29 PM.

11-19-2004, 07:40 PM	#137
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	The Mint Mark is very wrong too!!! Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

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11-02-2004, 05:38 PM	#132
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Hi Dat, It's pretty difficult to make an informed judgement with such small scans. If you can post larger/more detailed scans, that would help. Marc

11-13-2004, 08:48 AM	#134
*desantnik* Forum Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eurasia Posts: 2,339	Your piece falls within the normal serial # range 80.000-84.000 for similarly done pieces, presumably done at the mint to comply with the new awarding regulations and convert screwbacks to suspension red banners. Your photos aren't the best, but it doesn't look tampered with. The blow-up you did of the suspension ring looks a little unusual (no wear, patina, and gold-plated?), but without handling it, IMHO it's probably OK.

11-19-2004, 05:41 PM	#136
Eugene Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 157	This "dove tail" - lastockin xvost - is quite rare variation. This one on Ebay is fake. The part itself as well as the loop attached to the order was very thin. Almost twise thinner that on the scan. It's very likely they cut out and attached the piece from the original suspension Red Banner to make this variation.

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