Badge "Central Cossack Troops".

[deValcourt]

I have a couple of badges here that I've had for a while and don't know what they are for. I have no recollection of actually buying this first one so it must have come in a batch with some others (perhaps the owner was trying to get rid of it ;)). It is a bit over-the-top for my taste, but in 1994 "flare" was very popular in Russia and the mint mark on the screw plate is one I have seen often on fantasy and other post-1991 badges. It's a solid piece and rather heavy. Other than that, I've always wondered what the fez-looking gold top is supposed to be. Any ideas? ЦКВ?

Phillip

Update: I figured out what the second badge is that I was going to post and now I feel silly because it is for an Italian fencing society and I should have known better. Needless to say, I won't be posting it for ID.

[desantnik]

I would guess a Cossak organization.

If I remember correctly the Don and Terek Cossacks at a minimum had such a pillbox-shaped hat with the cross on top in different colors. The TsK could be "Central Cossack" and the "V" could stand for a special word like "Organization" that doesn't immediately come to mind, like voevodstvo or something.

[deValcourt]

That would make sense and what I've seen from a fellow in an international organization of Cossacks, the name of which escapes me now, they are a flashy group.

[Nota Bene]

TsKV stands for Tsentral'noe Kazachie Voisko or Central Cossack Host (?). Desantnik, how would you translate Voisko in this case?

Alexei

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

TsKV stands for Tsentral'noe Kazachie Voisko or Central Cossack Host (?). Desantnik, how would you translate Voisko in this case?

Alexei

I would go with "Troops" in the plural since it is meant to represent a "host" of disparate Cossack organizations and reflects a particular type of historically irregular forces.

The word "voisko" is another slippery word like "boevoi" when people who don't know what they're talking about cry foul about the translation of "Combat Service Medal", but other suggested improvements are equallly assailable.

The word "voisko" is also used in the plural for "Airborne Forces", but in this case for a few reasons, I would lean toward "Troops".

"Host" could fit too, but for my taste in English invokes either religious or other historical connotations, less suited than "troops".

Additionally, I should have added that the "fez" is a poor representation of the Cossack hat. The original is flatter and wider. This does kind of look like a fez :).

[deValcourt]

Yes I know the hats you are referring to from films and from Turkmenistan. I guess ultimately my question is whether this is something a group or organization had made or if the government actually uses the "Voen Znak" mint?

Also, I found the pictures my Cossack aquaintance sent me of some reception where US and Canadian military showed up - or maybe his group showed up at a US-Canadian function. I don't know if he's in any of these pictures (he has never given me a real name but goes by OCHA3 on that auction site - even signs emails that way), but he says he's a "Lt. General in USA Cossacks."

-The first picture has only "General Denikin" as a cut line for ID.
-The second reads: "BG Goodwin, MAJ Rueschoff, Sergei Tsapenko, Count General Ataman GBCT of USA and Canada."
-There is nothing for the third.

I think the setting is the Russian Embassy in DC. I've only been inside twice a very long time ago, but I'm pretty sure I've been in the room in the second photo. Note the tie of the RF officer second from right in the third pic. It has the military eagle on it, but I can't make out his rank or service branch from the shoulder boards - unlike the army colonel next to him. Perhaps Patrick could weigh in here?

I thought you guys might get a kick out of these.:D

Phillip

[desantnik]

"Cossack" is hard to define - kind of like organized cowboys that lived on the fringes of the Russian empire. They or their descendents fled serfdom to live in freedom and after a while cut a deal with the Russian royalty to be left alone, they would defend against the Moslems, Turks, etc. This cossack culture became known for its cavalry skills in particular, as well as general martial abilties. The formed in collectives and had a very military hierarchy hed by an "ataman". These decentralized atamans gradually semi- subordinated themselves to larger regional atamans with varying degrees of autonomy. This autonomy lends to self-important people choosing varying titles with no actual authority. I heard a joke once that wherever there are two Ukrainians gathered, you'll find three "atamans" - sorry for all my Ukrainian friends:).

The cossack culture and its definition are widely diverse, but from what I've seen and experienced, the most common demoninator is the Christian Orthodox faith and its defense, as well as the acceptance of cossack cultures and values, whatever that means. I've seen "cossackness" offered for the verbal acceptance of the above, watered down to "well, it doesn't have to be Orthodox Christianity, but Christianity in general" and a modest membership fee :D, made payable to the denoting "ataman". Kind of like Umalatova awards - anyone can earn them, except I guess Muslims...:rolleyes:

The Soviet state didn't much care for autonomomous, freedom loving people, but employed cossack units in the Civil War and GPW. Cossacks were kind of stamped out afterwards on a low simmer, but revived after the fall of the Soviet Union. Cossack paramilitary units have participated in conflicts since 1992 including at a minimum Moldova and Georgia.

BTW, the individual pictured is a whack-job.

[Nota Bene]

Desantnik,

Thanks for the explanation! I am glad I asked. I knew it wasn't the "Army" :D

Using the word "host" I was actually going for historical connotation, I guess it was the wrong one. I was also trying to avoid using plural in English. Do you think this could create a problem in translating something like "представители казачьих войск", meaning several of them?

In this case Voisko is an administrative subdivision of Cossacks, composed of Stanitsas.

Alexei

[deValcourt]

Believe me when I tell you I know he is a "whack job." Your hyphenated word choice "self-important" pretty much sums up this fellow.

As for the Cossack culture, I remember that some groups were given specific titles via awards or honors by the Romanov's - particularly Ekaterina (if I am remembering what I saw in the Hermitage on one of my walk-throughs correctly).

When I think of Cossacks, I often picture Yuliy "Yul" Borisovich Brynner who played the part of a Cossack in one of his films - not The Brothers Karamazov or Westworld (my personal favorite), but one of the Southern or Eastern Russian roles he had. I think he played a Cossack Partisan in a WWII film. Anyway, he's how I picture Cossacks, which is like saying John Wayne is my archetypal cowboy - which Brynner did very well also in The Magnificent Seven. What all this has to do with the badge and your very informative piece of personal insight on Cossacks, I don't know anymore. Perhaps my cold medicine is getting the better of me.:weird

Regardless, thank you for the information as always. We are lucky to have you as a resource.:thumbsup

And speaking of resources:
Alexei, what wrong with "representatives of the Cossack troops"? I don't know the context of what you are asking about, so please excuse my interruption.:)

At the same time, there is a severely undocumented statement regarding "stanitsas" on the one place I never let my students go - Wikipedia: "Stanitsa (Russian: стани́ца, pronounced stah-nee-tsah; Ukrainian: станиця, stanytsia) is a village inside a Cossack host (voisko) (казачье войско, kazachye voysko, sometimes translated as "Cossack Army"). Stanitsas were the primary unit of Cossack hosts.
Historically, the stanitsa was a unit of economic and political organisation of the Cossack peoples primarily in the southern regions of the Russian Empire."

Obviously, the translators went with "host" but unlike Paul, I see medical or biological connotations (or even hospitality) in the word rather than religious (despite a rigid Catholic upbringing); e.g., "host cell" or "the host of a show."

I'm probably overstepping my bounds here on things I don't have all the facts on, so I will shut up now.:D

Phillip

[Nota Bene]

Here's another link to wiki:

Cossack host - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have to say that I still like Desantnik's translation better.

Originally Posted by devalcourt

Alexei, what wrong with "representatives of the Cossack troops"? I don't know the context of what you are asking about, so please excuse my interruption.:)

In this case plural in Russian is lost, so I was wondering is "representatives of several Cossack troops" would be a solution. Doesn't sound right to me.

Alexei